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Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

economist.com

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Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#41

Post by anang »

milesrout wrote: post #25
ahoka wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe read and spread less Russian propaganda. Illegal immigrants never get anything in EU, other than Schengen entry bans.

Illegal migrants that claim asylum in Germany and Sweden have never got any public services, housing or other support? Really, that is your position?!

I don't think asylum seekers are typically considered illegal immigrants. I think that's more individuals who either don't seek legal status, or have tried to get a legal status but failed and stayed in the country anyway.

And I don't think Sweden and Germany are giving free housing to individuals that overstayed their visas.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#42

Post by modo_mario »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #15
Elixir6419 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty perception is relative. Most people judge their position on the poor/rich scale based on their sorroundings, rather than in absolute value. Also to the point on raising the bar. I think that is not a bad thing.

This is the key point. We can look back on people who were royalty in their time, but by modern standards, they would've been living a poor life. No AC in the summer, no proper medical care and the possibility of dying from a mild tooth problem, only having access to food that's in-season, zero running water, needing to have your poop hauled away in buckets, needing to spend all day just to travel 15 km, being blamed…

"No AC in the summer"

Have you ever been in a castle? Thermal mass is highly underestimated from my experience. I suggest the likes of Foix in warm southern france in the peak of summer. Walking into one of the lower rooms where the doors are wide open and such is like walking into a fridge.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#43

Post by abdullahkhalids »

saagarjha wrote: post #39
ta20240528 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three significant figures for a somewhat rough measurement of poverty over a sample of a population as diverse as India should have one's BS alarms blaring. Actually both 28,7 and 29,2 = 30. Social workers playing at science.

I fail to see how diversity in the country would change those metrics.

Economic class is highly correlated with social, religious, ethnic, tribal class. If there are more social, religious, ethnic, tribal classes in a single country (i.e. the country is diverse) then in another, then you do need to sample more of the groups to get sample means free from systematic bias.

Simple example: image you are asked to compute the mean diameter of all balls in each of two bags. You open the first bag, and it is all blue balls, and they all look very close in radius. So you measure a few and call it a day. You open the second bag, and there are balls of about 50 different colors, and it seems like all the colors have different radius. So, then to get a good result, you need to measure almost the diameter of most of the colors.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#44

Post by ta20240528 »

saagarjha wrote: post #39
ta20240528 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three significant figures for a somewhat rough measurement of poverty over a sample of a population as diverse as India should have one's BS alarms blaring. Actually both 28,7 and 29,2 = 30. Social workers playing at science.

I fail to see how diversity in the country would change those metrics.

It makes it harder (impossible even) to take precise measurements deep into the decimal places if you have massive contours in the very thing (wealth) you are trying to measure with just one scalar number.

Diversity is not meant in the modern political interpretation.

As an less triggering exercise: try record in a single number the temperature - and change - of a large geographically diverse place like Australia - which has deserts and forests and is also subject to large periodic fluctuations like el Niño/la Niña.

I submit that you would be embarrassed to say it went from 28,7°C to 29,2°C and think it meant anything.

The misuse (and misunderstanding) of significant figures (let alone averages) is rampant in the social sciences. To the disadvantage of the folk we are all trying to help.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#45

Post by profsummergig »

eclecticfrank wrote: post #40
profsummergig wrote: post #36

India really needs to work on consciousness-raising regarding sanitation/cleanliness. Modi made a start in 2014. I don't know why the momentum stopped. Some of the videos coming out of there (e.g. the recent video of the railway employee throwing a huge amount of used disposable plastic food trays off a moving train) are shocking.

India is on a steady path of improvement and has awareness campaigns running that adress these issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... https://innovateindia.mygov.in/toilet-campaign/ https://siwi.org/latest/the-clean-india-mission-worlds-large...

The recent Delhi election,

I was watching videos of some of the slums.

There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them.

I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi.

I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly admirably) set up. Some of them looked so dirty and structurally unsound that they wouldn't be allowed to function as holding pens for farm animals in the US.

In the US, we have companies like Waste Management handle our waste. Surprises me that India doesn't have a dozen Waste Managements by now. Billion dollar unicorns/startups/whatever, innovating in turning "waste to wealth" (as Nitin Gadkari calls it). Put capitalism to use where there's a failure of non-capitalism to solve the problem. But there might be deep cultural issues. I suspect the caste system plays a part. The forward castes believe that trash management is beneath them.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#46

Post by defrost »

ta20240528 wrote: post #44
saagarjha wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how diversity in the country would change those metrics.

It makes it harder (impossible even) to take precise measurements deep into the decimal places if you have massive contours in the very thing (wealth) you are trying to measure with just one scalar number. Diversity is not meant in the modern political interpretation. As an less triggering exercise: try record in a single number the temperature - and change - of a large geographically diverse place like Australia - w…

If the mean rolling average of all tempreture readings across Australia moved by 0.5 across a twelve month period that would indeed be a significant change that would certainly mean something.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#47

Post by lnsru »

ahoka wrote: post #21
copx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is infamous for housing illegal immigrants in hotels, and they don't just get free food but free money, too. Oh, and free healthcare. Free money, housing, and healthcare for everyone is also the law here in Germany, which is why we get flooded by illegal immigrants too.. ..and that's why these Western European welfare states are collapsing. You can only afford something like this if your population overwhelmin…

Maybe read and spread less Russian propaganda. Illegal immigrants never get anything in EU, other than Schengen entry bans.

Please read this article in German: https://www.merkur.de/lokales/muenchen/so-viel-gibt-muenchen...

They get not only free housing, but also free food and even a janitor! That’s better than significant part of the population does. Do you think, that delivery driver or a nurse can afford more?

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#48

Post by sorushn »

ksynwa wrote: post #5

I don't understand the significant of metrics like the international poverty line. Seems like the only point of its existence is to create a sense of progress or maybe exaggerate it. They never account for basic stuff like how many calories people get to eat, let alone the quality of nutrition. Last year I read an article saying like 30% of children in India are stunted.

It is used to justify and excuse WEF-imposed restructuring which in reality comes at tremendous human cost.

Re: Extreme poverty in India has dropped to negligible levels

#49

Post by navigate8310 »

profsummergig wrote: post #45
eclecticfrank wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is on a steady path of improvement and has awareness campaigns running that adress these issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... https://innovateindia.mygov.in/toilet-campaign/ https://siwi.org/latest/the-clean-india-mission-worlds-large...

The recent Delhi election, I was watching videos of some of the slums. There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them. I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi. I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly…

I believe that's ingrained in the culture to live besides the filth and romanticize poverty.
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