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British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

theguardian.com

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Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#211

Post by caseyy »

addicted wrote: post #184
caseyy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but where was she supposed to go before her flight? She was trying to commit immigration fraud by coming to work to the US with ESTA. There was evidence. So she could not be let in. She also could not be legally turned around. And deportation takes time. Of course, it is not desirable to detain such people. And it is especially unfortunate that she was in a for-profit detention facility and suffered mistreatment…

> She was trying to commit immigration fraud by coming to work to the US with ESTA. There was evidence. So she could not be let in. She also could not be legally turned around. And deportation takes time. Even if we accept everything you say as true (which it very well may be, so sure), you’ve papered over the crux of the isssue with “deportation may take time”. No. Deportation takes no time whatsoever. ICE has been…

In the US, deportation takes months to years after someone is found guilty of an immigration offense. Detention is ordinarily limited to 180 days, and this has been true since about 2001.

It even takes months to years in Germany, and detention is reviewed every 180 days for Duldung status.

The truth is this German citizen was deported very quickly compared to many others and under otherwise relatively normal circumstances.

Remember that all news media has a bias (humans simply are biased, a map is not the territory, and all that), and it was probably in someone’s interest to exaggerate the story as they did (maybe simply for clicks, maybe for politics).

Outside of the use of solitary confinement, I don’t see how her deportation process could have been practically improved. When you speak of people being deported immediately, you are probably talking about turning around at the border (refusing entry when someone can go back and doesn’t become trapped). This is preferred by everyone but can’t always be done. Maybe it is aspirational to do it in more cases (immigrant buses to the airport or similar), but I don’t know any country that does it like that.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#212

Post by caseyy »

wat10000 wrote: post #162
caseyy wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not strictly a crime, but immigration/visa fraud is a “removable offence”. It is the law that a person committing it will be removed. Sometimes immediate removal is not possible and these people must be detained and housed. This is not all that ridiculous. What would be ridiculous is if people who have in the past, or would have by the virtue of entering into a country, committed immigration fraud were let in. O…

This is about the same level of lawbreaking as slightly exceeding the speed limit. I have no problem with removing them. Jailing them for days first is ridiculous. Imagine if you got pulled over for speeding and they stuck you in jail for days until they could be bothered to find you a ride home.

It’s normal for detention in such scenarios to take months in both the US and Germany.

Since about 2001, it has been limited in the US to 180 days. In Germany, detention is reviewed every six months, and some people are granted exceptional leave to remain, but it is not capped.

Immigration offenses are much more severe than an administrative penalty for speeding. Largely, no one debates that.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#213

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

robertlagrant wrote: post #145
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like these make me happy I live in Europe.

If you live in Europe you'll need a visa to work in the US. You want to live in the US to not need the visa.

Well, I live in Europe and work for an American company and I don't need a visa. In general, the USA is a very nice country to visit but for long-term living I prefer the EU.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#214

Post by Doxin »

londons_explore wrote: post #136
yibg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based just on the details in the report, it seems refusing entry is justified. Or at least not very strange. What I don't understand is, why not just send her back home vs detaining her? Maybe someone that's more knowledgeable here can chime in. Is it standard practice to detain someone, especially for an extended period, vs just putting them on the first plane back home?

When you are at a land border, but neither country on either side of the border will grant you entry, there is no easy 'way out'. She could not fly to the UK directly from that border location. When arrested, she has to go through the proper deportation process - and that might well be very expensive, and she might not have the money to pay. Deportations can easily cost 10x a regular flight cost due to the extra secu…

> When arrested, she has to go through the proper deportation process

Why? Surely if both the US and the deportee agree that deportation is A-OK then you don't need judges and whatnot involved? Surely having a cop drive her to the airport and make sure she gets on a flight is wildly less work involved for everyone than whatever the fuck is going on now?

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#215

Post by bruceb »

orwin wrote: post #104
dmix wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like she was surviving doing chores in exchange for a place to sleep (in two different countries). It's possible she didn't have a plane ticket lined up.

It's so expensive to not take a return ticket, I doubt she didn't had a return plane ticket. Maybe she moved her flight or missed it, but only rich people don't buy a return ticket.

I am not sure if the comment is serious or not. Often one way tix are not much more than half a round trip tix It used to be one way tickets were like 70+% of a round trip, not as much anymore

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#216

Post by gggtttkkk88 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #206
gggtttkkk88 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

My ancestors (going back to the 1400s) were the living embodiment of "the mutt mindset", only rooted in northern Europe. Someone who didn't want to fight in the Hugenot wars ran off to England, and the fucking began...

[flagged]

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#217

Post by oliwarner »

necovek wrote: post #116
kennysoona wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a right and a wrong way to enforce the law, though. Putting her in a literal prison and in an orange jumpsuit is overkill. Clearly she just screwed up and thought what she was doing was ok, but isn't a threat. Let her go back to the UK and no longer be eligible for ESTA. How is that not sufficient?

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

> There is only one way to enforce the law

Treating every possible infraction like a hard felony is both costly to the taxpayer and chilling to tourists.

The approach of ICE appears to be: Nobody has rights, no search is unreasonable, harvest all the data, then lock everyone up and put them at the back of a hearing queue.

Post-9/11 America is a horrible border experience for legitimate tourists. It is repeatedly noted about how unwelcome you are and how very little you need to do to be incarcerated and deported.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#218

Post by bruceb »

quitit wrote: post #63
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like these make me happy I live in Europe.

Just some of my personal anecdotes: I was travelling to Ireland(Dublin) as a tourist and during questioning by a border agent I mentioned that I might check my email (they noticed my laptop), the border agent simply advised me that my visa did not allow work but since I was clearly being transparent about my actions and intentions that there was no reason for them to block me or require me to apply for a working visa…

This has been the case before the current administration. It isn't administration elusive. There is a lack of professionalism by some US border agents.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#219

Post by kennysoona »

layman51 wrote: post #209
kennysoona wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Why? On what basis?

I assume it has to do with a federal law that grants immigration agents broad searches and inspections and technically the Fourth Amendment does not fully apply as long as they are within 100 miles of the border or in the functional equivalent of a border (like an airport). The ACLU has a summary page about this.[1] [1]: https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-...

I wouldn't think that would extend to threats like a cavity search and flagging their passport.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#220

Post by kennysoona »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #146
timeon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems shocking from European perspective. At least they did not shot her because of resisting or something.

I suggest you read up on your country's actual visa violation punitive assessment. You'll be surprised I guarantee it if this is your "European" perspective. The countries who can enforce their visa terms, do. And Europeans are no different, some are even worse than US treatment they're getting.

> some are even worse than US treatment they're getting.

Show one comparable story from an EU country.

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