British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue • Hacker News Board

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#181

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:06 AM UTC

necovek wrote: post #169

kennysoona wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the la…

I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone — I don't see a difference between a Mexican person overstaying or her overstaying from the angle of immigration clerks — it should! US should also certainly adapt laws to avoid any "detention" fo…

> but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is.

Historically, (as in: during periods where Trump is not president) it is not.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#182

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:07 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #173

kennysoona wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the la…

>All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. So what are you proposing? Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me. >It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a…

> Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me.

No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin.

That means no more prison/orange jump suit/inacessibility for Europeans or people from South America who screw up their visa conditions.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#183

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:08 AM UTC

jonnybgood wrote: post #165

kennysoona wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the la…

> Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. Should they have put her on house arrest in a hotel room? She doesn't deserve special privileges. A huge swath of the US population would be adamantly against her being treated special.

Do you know that mixed race marriage did not gain majority support in the USA until 1995? Sometimes it is right to not give a fuck about what "a huge swath of the US population thinks".

And in this case, it's not about "special priviledges", it's about the ridiculousness of this process being applied to anyone in her circumstances.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#184

Post by addicted » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:09 AM UTC

caseyy wrote: post #143

nosianu wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She had an airline ticket. She missed that flight now. > Brösche had her German passport, confirmation of her visa waiver to enter the country, and a copy of her return ticket back to Berlin

Yes, but where was she supposed to go before her flight? She was trying to commit immigration fraud by coming to work to the US with ESTA. There was evidence. So she could not be let in. She also could not be legally turned around. And deportation takes time. Of course, it is not desirable to detain such people. And it is especially unfortunate that she was in a for-profit detention facility and suffered mistreatment…

> She was trying to commit immigration fraud by coming to work to the US with ESTA. There was evidence. So she could not be let in. She also could not be legally turned around. And deportation takes time.

Even if we accept everything you say as true (which it very well may be, so sure), you’ve papered over the crux of the isssue with “deportation may take time”.

No. Deportation takes no time whatsoever. ICE has been deporting people within hours of detaining them even in situations where they don’t want to go back to their home countries or their home country doesn’t want to accept them.

But even beyond that, the only reason it’s “taking time” is because the Trump administration fired a whole bunch of immigration judges slowing the entire process down.

End of the day you can make all the excuses you want. My friends who have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the U.S. in the past are not gonna come anymore.

Literally no one benefits from this mess but all some people can do is defend the stupidest of policies and actions.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#185

Post by swat535 » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:13 AM UTC

necovek wrote: post #116

kennysoona wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a right and a wrong way to enforce the law, though. Putting her in a literal prison and in an orange jumpsuit is overkill. Clearly she just screwed up and thought what she was doing was ok, but isn't a threat. Let her go back to the UK and no longer be eligible for ESTA. How is that not sufficient?

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

Your argument that courts will eventually hear a case ignores the reality that immigration proceedings are often slow, and delays can cause irreparable harm to the individual (for instance those facing deportation by the current Trump administration).

Second, I disagree with your stance on strict enforcement without discretion, this often lead to unjust outcomes. Laws exist to serve justice, not just to be enforced blindly.

Third, addressing your "ignorance of the law" argument, sure it may not be a defense, but the expectation that everyone fully understands a convoluted legal system is unreasonable.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#186

Post by a_bonobo » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:19 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #148

The US has always been a scary place to cross the border. I'm a Brit and have been to 50+ countries and the US is the only one that seems like it's trying to find a reason to arrest you. The others generally don't give problems or possibly just refuse entry and you have to go back. The other thing that puzzles me about the US is they give basically law abiding travellers all sorts of grief while at the same time lett…

I agree - I've traveled a few times to the US to speak at conferences and every time the border agent tried to entrap me - i.e., tried to get me to confess that I'm being paid for my presentation, which obviously isn't covered by ESTA. I've never been paid, classic academic. But they still try every time! How much can a regular person earn in speaking fees that this would warrant interviews?

EU/Australia/New Zealand/Japan has been the opposite experience - they never asked.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#187

Post by mingus88 » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:22 AM UTC

wat10000 wrote: post #180

mingus88 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? She violated the terms of her visa. That's illegal. She was detained at the border because of this. I agree that 10 days in lockup feel excessive for this, but I honestly, as someone who has traveled and crossed many borders, I have a hard time finding sympathy. I wouldn't expect to be treated well at many, many border crossings if I was found to have broken the law while I was in country. It sure would be nice…

My point is that it’s a low level of illegality that does not deserve a week or two in jail. We have the concept of proportionate punishment. You don’t go to jail for jaywalking. You do go to jail for grand theft. The legislature has decided that most immigration offenses are more like jaywalking. Such offenses should not result in being locked up for days. If you have a hard time finding sympathy for someone who mad…

She entered the country and knowingly violated the terms of entry. She did so knowing the country was being taken over by the most vocal anti-immigration administration in generations.

I feel bad for her, but not _that_ bad. Again, when I'm traveling in a foreign country, I make it a point know the laws and not break them. Her entire trip was predicated on violating US law so...

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#188

Post by gggtttkkk88 » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:23 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #183

jonnybgood wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. Should they have put her on house arrest in a hotel room? She doesn't deserve special privileges. A huge swath of the US population would be adamantly against her being treated special.

Do you know that mixed race marriage did not gain majority support in the USA until 1995? Sometimes it is right to not give a fuck about what "a huge swath of the US population thinks". And in this case, it's not about "special priviledges", it's about the ridiculousness of this process being applied to anyone in her circumstances.

[flagged]

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#189

Post by kennysoona » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:26 AM UTC

jonnybgood wrote: post #165

kennysoona wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the la…

> Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. Should they have put her on house arrest in a hotel room? She doesn't deserve special privileges. A huge swath of the US population would be adamantly against her being treated special.

Again, discretion is a thing.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#190

Post by ty6853 » Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 2:26 AM UTC

swat535 wrote: post #185

necovek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

Your argument that courts will eventually hear a case ignores the reality that immigration proceedings are often slow, and delays can cause irreparable harm to the individual (for instance those facing deportation by the current Trump administration). Second, I disagree with your stance on strict enforcement without discretion, this often lead to unjust outcomes. Laws exist to serve justice, not just to be enforced b…

Immigration in the US is designed around rewarding the daring liar.

Overstaying a visa isn't even illegal and extremely difficult to enforce, and working informally is trivial and pretty much impossible to enforce in a country where citizens don't have to carry ID (sometimes even to vote). Anyone 100+ miles into the country on a tourist visa is basically home free, probably even for life and triply so if they speak English and look European.

So what the US does is put the meanest scariest motherfuckers around in CBP/HSI at the border and then say whatever they need to turn the crank, which does little to someone who knows what's happening but great at scaring a naive German woman who doesn't realize border officers are basically playing a confidence game.