Live data from Hacker News

A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

lesswrong.com

101–110 of 220 posts

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#101

>GPT-5 will be even less of an improvement on GPT-4.5 than GPT-4.5 was on GPT-4. The pattern will continue for GPT-5.5 and GPT-6, the ~1000x and 10000x models they may train by 2029 (if they still have the money by then). Subtle quality-of-life improvements and meaningless benchmark jumps, but nothing paradigm-shifting. It's easy to spot people who secretly hate LLMs and feel threatened by them these days. GPT-5 will…

> In conclusion, we will reach AGI

I'm a little confused by this confidence? Is there more evidence aside from the number of smart people working on it? We have a lot of smart people working on a lot of big problems, that doesn't guarantee a solution nor a timeline.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#102

>GPT-5 will be even less of an improvement on GPT-4.5 than GPT-4.5 was on GPT-4. The pattern will continue for GPT-5.5 and GPT-6, the ~1000x and 10000x models they may train by 2029 (if they still have the money by then). Subtle quality-of-life improvements and meaningless benchmark jumps, but nothing paradigm-shifting. It's easy to spot people who secretly hate LLMs and feel threatened by them these days. GPT-5 will…

It's also easy to spot irrational zealots. Your statement is no more plausible than OP's. No one knows whether we'll achieve AGI, especially since the definition is very blurry.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#103

>GPT-5 will be even less of an improvement on GPT-4.5 than GPT-4.5 was on GPT-4. The pattern will continue for GPT-5.5 and GPT-6, the ~1000x and 10000x models they may train by 2029 (if they still have the money by then). Subtle quality-of-life improvements and meaningless benchmark jumps, but nothing paradigm-shifting. It's easy to spot people who secretly hate LLMs and feel threatened by them these days. GPT-5 will…

Some hard problems have remain unsolved in basically every field of human interest for decades/centuries/millennia -- despite the number of intelligent people and/or resources that have been thrown at them.

I really don't understand the level optimism that seems to exist for LLMs. And speculating that people "secretly hate LLMs" and "feel threatened by them" isn't an answer (frankly, when I see arguments that start with attacks like that alarm bells start going off in my head).

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#104
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were revolutionary as product genres, not necessary individual companies. Ordering a cab without making a phone call was revolutionary. Netflix at least with its initial promise of having all the world's movies and TV was revolutionary, but it didn't live up to that. Spotify because of how cheap and easy it was to have access to all the music, this was the era when people were paying 99c per song on iTunes. I've…

> Ordering a cab without making a phone call was revolutionary. With the power of AI, soon you'll be able to say "Hey Siri, get me an Uber to the airport". As easy as making a phone call.

There was a gain in precision going from phone call to app. There is a loss of precision going from app to voice. The tradeoff of precision for convenience is rarely worth it.

Because if it were, Uber would just make a widget asking "Where do you want to go?" and you'd enter "Airport" and that would be it. If a widget of some action is a bad idea, so is the voice command.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#105

>GPT-5 will be even less of an improvement on GPT-4.5 than GPT-4.5 was on GPT-4. The pattern will continue for GPT-5.5 and GPT-6, the ~1000x and 10000x models they may train by 2029 (if they still have the money by then). Subtle quality-of-life improvements and meaningless benchmark jumps, but nothing paradigm-shifting. It's easy to spot people who secretly hate LLMs and feel threatened by them these days. GPT-5 will…

I logged in to specifically downvote this comment, because it attacks the OP's position with unjustified and unsubstantiated confidence in the reverse.

> It's easy to spot people who secretly hate LLMs and feel threatened by them these days.

I don't think OP is threatened or hates LLM, if anything, OP is on the position that LLM are so far away from intelligence that it's laughable to consider it threatening.

> In conclusion, we will reach AGI

The same way we "cured" cancer and Alzheimer's, two arguably much more important inventions than a glorified text predictor/energy guzzler. But I like the confidence, it's almost as much as OP's confidence that nothing substantial will happen.

> It's a race with high stakes, and history shows that these types of races don't stop until there is a winner.

So is the existential threat to humanity in the race to phase out fossil fuels/stop global warming, and so far I don't see anyone "winning".

> However, these models increase productivity, allowing people to focus more on research

The same way the invention of the computer, the car, the vacuum cleaner and all the productivity increasing inventions in the last centuries allowed us to idle around, not have a job, and focus on creative things.

> It's easy to spot people who secretly hate LLMs and feel threatened by them these days

It's easy to spot e/acc bros feeling threatened that all the money they sunk into crypto, AI, the metaverse, web3 are gonna go to waste and try to fan the hype around it so they can cash in big. How does that sound?

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#106
I have used neural networks for engineering problems since the 1980s. I say this as context for my opinion: I cringe at most applications of LLMs that attempt mostly autonomous behavior, but I love using LLMs as ‘side kicks’ as I work. If I have a bug in my code, I will add a few printout statements where I think my misunderstanding of my code is, show an LLM my code and output, explain the error: I very often get useful feedback.

I also like practical tools like NotebookLM where I can pose some questions, upload PDFs, and get a summary based in what my questions.

My point is: my brain and experience are often augmented in efficient ways by LLMs.

So far I have addressed practical aspects of LLMs. I am retired so I can spend time on non practical things: currently I am trying to learn how to effectively use code generated by gemini 2.0 flash at runtime; the gemini SDK supports this fairly well so I am just trying to understand what is possible (before this I spent two months experimenting with writing my own tools/functions in Common Lisp and Python.)

I “wasted” close to two decades of my professional life on old fashioned symbolic AI (but I was well paid for the work) but I am interested in probabilistic approaches, such as in a book I bought yesterday “Causal AI” that was just published.

Lastly, I think some of the recent open source implementations of new ideas from China are worth carefully studying.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#107
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it revolutionary to order from a screen rather than calling a restaurant for delivery? I don’t think so.

Honestly, yes. Calling in an order can result in the restaurant botching the order and you have no way to challenge it unless you recorded the call. Also, as someone who’s been on both sides of the transaction, some people have poor audio quality or speak accented English, which is difficult to understand. Ordering from a screen saves everyone valuable time and reduces confusion.

I’ve had app delivery orders get botched, drivers get lost on their way to my apartment, food show up cold or ruined, etc.

The worst part is that when DoorDash fucks up an order, the standard remediation process every other business respects—either a full refund or come back, pick up the wrong order, and bring you the correct order—is just not something they ever do. And if you want to avoid DoorDash, you can’t because if you order from the restaurant directly it often turns out to be white label DoorDash.

Some days I wish there was a corporate death penalty and that it could be applied to DoorDash.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#108
post #32

The thing I can't wrap my head around is that I work on extremely complex AI agents every day and I know how far they are from actually replacing anyone. But then I step away from my work and I'm constantly bombarded with “agents will replace us”. I wasted a few days trying to incorporate aider and other tools into my workflow. I had a simple screen I was working on for configuring an AI Agent. I gave screenshots of…

It kind of reminds me of the Y2K scare. Leading up to that, there were a lot of people in groups like comp.software.year-2000 who claimed to be doing Y2K fixes at places like the IRS and big corporations. They said they were just doing triage on the most critical systems, and that most things wouldn't get fixed, so there would be all sorts of failures. The "experts" who were closest to the situation, working on it in person, turned out to be completely wrong.

I try to keep that in mind when I hear people who work with LLMs, who usually have an emotional investment in AI and often a financial one, speak about them in glowing terms that just don't match up with my own small experiments.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#109
post #32

The thing I can't wrap my head around is that I work on extremely complex AI agents every day and I know how far they are from actually replacing anyone. But then I step away from my work and I'm constantly bombarded with “agents will replace us”. I wasted a few days trying to incorporate aider and other tools into my workflow. I had a simple screen I was working on for configuring an AI Agent. I gave screenshots of…

> But then I step away from my work and I'm constantly bombarded with “agents will replace us”.

An assembly language programmer might have said the same about C programming at one point. I think the point is, that once you depend on a more abstract interface that permits you to ignore certain details, that permits decades of improvements to that backend without you having to do anything. People are still experimenting with what this abstract interface is and how it will work with AI, but they've already come leaps and bounds from where they were only a couple of years ago, and it's only going to get better.

Re: A bear case: My predictions regarding AI progress

#110
> At some point there might be massive layoffs due to ostensibly competent AI labor coming onto the scene, perhaps because OpenAI will start heavily propagandizing that these mass layoffs must happen. It will be an overreaction/mistake. The companies that act on that will crash and burn, and will be outcompeted by companies that didn't do the stupid.

Um... I don't think companies are going to perform mass layoffs because "OpenAI said they must happen". If that were to happen it'd be because they are genuinely able to automate a ton of jobs using LLMs, which would be a bull case (not for AGI necessarily, but for the increased usefulness of LLMs)

Post reply on HN