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Apple Exclaves

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Re: Apple Exclaves

#101

Post by eecc »

orangepanda wrote: post #96
6stringmerc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think about how he tried to cure cancer with crystals and then when that didn’t work he used his wealth to get residency in a different state to jump in line for a transplant and still died before his yacht got completed. I don’t misunderstand him at all. Especially the parking in handicap spaces part. Very easy to understand what kind of person he was through his actions. Perhaps we will never see eye to eye…

Pancreatic cancer is known for being incurable, even in the best of circumstances, early diagnose or not. Having witnessed a family member go through the same thing, I understand Jobs's reaction of trying literally anything else.

Sorry for your loss.

Though SJ "He was diagnosed with insulinoma, which unlike other pancreatic cancers, is curable and can be treated with surgery."

see: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16157142#:~:text=He%20wa...

Re: Apple Exclaves

#102

Post by miki123211 »

astrange wrote: post #55
neom wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that I'm becoming an old man, I've taken the time to go back and listen to him properly, to analize his thoughts and words a bit more contextually, and I've come to believe that Steve Jobs was quite misunderstood, both by us, and by himself. When I miss him I think: his thoughts were so very refined for his time, it is quite incredible and I wish he was around to hear more of them. I guess I'm a fan? Oh well...wo…

He's definitely misunderstood. If you read his biography it's incredible how much the author of it misunderstands, but if you read between the lines you can see through them. In particular you should note how he changes before and after getting married. The biography is really awful though. It constantly misquotes people - Bill Gates is directly quoted as saying something so technically inaccurate he can't possibly h…

I think "becoming Steve Jobs" is a far better book.

I feel like the official Isaacson biography was trying to tell a story, and would twist facts and reality to fit that story. This certainly makes for entertaining reading, but is not a great way to study history.

Meanwhile "Becoming Steve Jobs" gives the reader glimpses into Jobs's life, often very contradictory glimpses, ones that don't really tell you what to think. It shows you how complex of a person he really was.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#103

Post by APPLE_LOVER »

neom wrote: post #25
musicale wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is weird. Jobs was divisive and (not infrequently) abrasive, and why would you miss a tech billionaire anyway? Yet I also feel indebted to him and to the folks at Apple who helped to produce some of my favorite products like the Mac, the iPod, and the iPad. Jobs also said a lot of things that still resonate with me. Recently Apple introduced a "classic Mac" screensaver that shows how carefully designed the origina…

Now that I'm becoming an old man, I've taken the time to go back and listen to him properly, to analize his thoughts and words a bit more contextually, and I've come to believe that Steve Jobs was quite misunderstood, both by us, and by himself. When I miss him I think: his thoughts were so very refined for his time, it is quite incredible and I wish he was around to hear more of them. I guess I'm a fan? Oh well...wo…

[flagged]

Re: Apple Exclaves

#104

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

eleveriven wrote: post #78
neom wrote: post #9

I think Steve truly believed at his core, very simply: your laptop is your diary, and they have a responsibility to that. I don't think Tim would be CEO if he didn't believe what Steve did. It's so weird, but I really miss Steve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA

Tim definitely carries that torch in his own way, but there was something about Steve's presence that made everything feel more… human? Less corporate? Hard to put into words, but yeah, I miss him too. Thanks for sharing that video.

One of the things about Tim Cook, that people don’t really talk about (which, IMO, is appropriate), is that he’s openly gay.

Most times, this doesn’t mean anything, but there’s very few demographics that understand the need for privacy and data protection, better than gay folks.

Of course, he’s still at the whim of the Board, and he’s no spring chicken, so there’s no guarantee that his successor would feel the same, but I do believe that he, himself, is legitimately serious about privacy.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#105

Post by globular-toast »

elygre wrote: post #97
globular-toast wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax?

> Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax? You didn’t pose the question to me. And yet. Very many people don’t. We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. We are part of a society that enables us to be what we are, why should we strive to give as little as possible in return? (And yes, we also don’t send extra money. This is not a contradiction.)

> We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them.

Only because you don't want to put the effort in to pursuing it. If I told you you could reduce your tax bill by 20% by spinning round in your chair one time I doubt you (or anyone else) would decline.

Every entity generally seeks to take as much as they can and give back as little as they can. Individuals are generally a little less extreme, in my experience, with corporations being the worst.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#107

Post by amelius »

neom wrote: post #9

I think Steve truly believed at his core, very simply: your laptop is your diary, and they have a responsibility to that. I don't think Tim would be CEO if he didn't believe what Steve did. It's so weird, but I really miss Steve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA

As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusiastic about these "hood-welded-shut" systems.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#108

Post by intrasight »

amelius wrote: post #107
neom wrote: post #9

I think Steve truly believed at his core, very simply: your laptop is your diary, and they have a responsibility to that. I don't think Tim would be CEO if he didn't believe what Steve did. It's so weird, but I really miss Steve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA

As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusia…

"The worse system except for all the others that have been tried."

Many hackers think that about Apple computers. Many others have no choice because they develop iOS apps.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#109

Post by eesmith »

globular-toast wrote: post #105
elygre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax? You didn’t pose the question to me. And yet. Very many people don’t. We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. We are part of a society that enables us to be what we are, why should we strive to give as little as possible in return? (And yes, we also don’t send extra money. This is not a contradiction.)

> We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. Only because you don't want to put the effort in to pursuing it. If I told you you could reduce your tax bill by 20% by spinning round in your chair one time I doubt you (or anyone else) would decline. Every entity generally seeks to take as much as they can and give back as little as they can. Individuals are generally…

I would not.

My taxes are not a burden on me. While on the other hand, the local politicians have sought tax cut after tax cut, causing the library to limit services, the schools to cut down on teaching staff, infrastructure maintenance delays, less funding for local social services and city events, and more.

My paying an extra 20% wouldn't fix things, as adding to the general budget would end up simply reducing taxes further, instead of everyone sharing the load.

I hate that I've starting getting involved with local politics. I would rather code.

Or, following your self-centric analysis, I would put the effort into raising my taxes by 20% since the collective benefits give me much more than what I can do individually.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#110

Post by vintagedave »

saagarjha wrote: post #7
markus_zhang wrote: post #4

I'm not familiar with that level of knowledge, but from the look of it you can attack the enclave itself to escalate privilege higher than the kernel enjoys? Is this piece of hardware something like a co-processor?

An exclave isn’t hardware, it’s an isolated piece of software that deals with a certain sensitive operation that you don’t want the kernel to have access to. So if you exploit it, then yes you have access to something that the kernel doesn’t–but that’s the point, because the goal is if you exploit the kernel you shouldn’t get access to that.

I'm a little confused reading the article on how exclaves are related to the Mach kernel. Is there a second, parallel seL4 kernel running on the same chip? If so, how do two kernels execute at the same time?

> To allow for execution of exclave Services while isolated from XNU, Apple has introduced a new kernel called the Secure Kernel (SK).

Or do exclaves run on a separate chip, like Secure Enclaves-with-a-N do? (The article said not to confuse the two.)

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