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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

201–210 of 287 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German, I love how you call 75mph speeding. There is a huge discussion going on in Germany of introducing a 80mph speed limit on the highway and many people claim that that does not work for them as they regularly drive 100mph average.

> they regularly drive 100mph average You don't drive 100mph average on German motorways. Especially with the trucks not giving a damn and forcing themselves through to the left lane to pass their colleagues driving 2 kph slower, arriving traffic be damned.

Depends on time, weekday and which highway. But in general you are correct, which doesn't stop people from claiming that they do and that a 130kph speed limit would be horrible.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#202
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sacrifice is that you can't use 40% of what's supposedly the range. > Did you gas up your car every time you drove back from work? No, right? Right, you gas up your car when it needs more gas. You can't do that with an electric car for two reasons: (1) you need to fuel the car well in advance of trying to use it, because fueling is extremely slow; (2) you can't go low on fuel without damaging the car. The only lo…

You shouldn't normally run a fuel powered car all the way to empty either. Fuel pumps tend to be cooled by the fuel they're pumping, running low means you might be pumping air in addition to fuel and air cooling isn't as effective as liquid cooling, so you will overheat your fuel pump (may not be a big deal depending on how long you can go with the tank critically empty). Fuel tanks also accumulate crud which is more…

Car tanks are plastic nowadays, there's a fuel fiter and they're pretty good at managing surge/sloshing. Many even reduce power when the fuel light is on for example. You probably shouldn't drive aggressively with the fuel light on but even the user manuals usually recommend refuelling at about the 1/4 mark mentioning the potential pump issue, the danger of running out of fuel entirely and that if the engine is sputtering systems like power anything, ESC, TC, etc might not work correctly. A full tank doesn't hurt but nowadays if you're not being a mong you can cruise with the fuel light on without damaging the car in any way.

Edit: Or at least way less than bad shifting, lugging, not waiting for it to warm up, not letting turbos cool down, etc. The fuel thing is one of those things I hear a lot but then it comes from people (not you, don't know you) who start their car after sitting in a parking lot for an hour and immediately do a pull or hoon around all the way to the parking spot and immediately kill the engine when they stop, etc. Triggers my mechanical sympathy 'tism.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#203
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars being much, much heavier than petrol cars do have a disadvantage going uphill. I'd still reckon that range estimates should ignore these extreme edge cases, though.

> Electric cars being much, much heavier than petrol cars This is one of those comments that continues to come up but has never added up. Certainly if you are comparing a Tesla compared to a compact or a Euro version of a compact. Absolutely there is a weight difference. The problem is if you did a like for like comparison..a Model Y is the same Weight as an X3. A Model 3 is a couple hundred pounds heavier than a Toy…

Difference between a petrol and electric Volvo XC40 is about 200KGs, so not insignificant but not as much as it's sometimes portrayed. EVs built from the ground-up may be able to knock a few of those KGs off too as they won't have structures designed for ICE components.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#204
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave…

Tip: if you turn off both the overheat protection and sentry mode, the phantom drain becomes 0%. I know this because I left my car idle for 2 months and it only lost 1% during that time. It is fine to turn these off, other cars don't even have these and they are fine.

I live in Calgary, overheat protection is only needed in one month in summer ;) I also installed the sun screen, the glass roof had a stress fracture and I didn't want to pay the $2k to fix it.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that is crazy. I've come to think of cars, and maybe other big purchases, as you're purchasing a culture; the company that made it and will service it - it's why Toyota is so highly regarded. I own a 20yo Toyota Tacoma - and it's making more frequent shop visits now; and there are some good independent shops, but the Toyota guys really do a good job and over-communicate what's going on when they have your vehicl…

The first time I got a Toyota, I brought it for regular maintenance and they cleaned my car at the end. I was shocked because I never experienced this before, but the technician told me it was free and standard procedure. At least they understood that if you see clean cars around you when you drive, you're more likely to buy the brand later, and keep happy clients.

I’m also a data point for excellent Toyota service from the dealership where we bought our Prius. From the concierge who holds your hand throughout the visit, to the free lunch voucher in their pleasant little cafeteria (sadly, closed after covid), to the couple of years of free oil changes, I actually looked forward to bringing the car in. And they cleaned it as well, a quick interior vacuum at least.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German, I love how you call 75mph speeding. There is a huge discussion going on in Germany of introducing a 80mph speed limit on the highway and many people claim that that does not work for them as they regularly drive 100mph average.

> they regularly drive 100mph average You don't drive 100mph average on German motorways. Especially with the trucks not giving a damn and forcing themselves through to the left lane to pass their colleagues driving 2 kph slower, arriving traffic be damned.

The reality of driving in Germany is that a lot of federal states have maximum speeds on the highway now. And thanks to years of neglect there is a lot of road construction everywhere in the country which means reduced speeds. Speeds are also reduced around cities, around major junctions. And that's usually also where the traffic jams are.

A journey from Berlin to my parents in the Netherlands (525km) would probably take me at least 6 hours normally. That's including stops for lunch, bathroom, fueling, etc. That averages out to about 80-90 km/hour. Only about a fifth or less of the distance allows for driving faster than 130km/h; and usually not for more than 10-20km before you have to slow down for some reason. Driving fast is fun but also stressful because there is always a jerk with a faster car behind you flashing their lights because you are "only" doing 160km/h (100 miles per hour). And high speeds also means accidents are fatal, fairly frequent, and typically result in very long traffic jams.

My experience driving around in different countries in Europe is that you don't get to your destination faster in Germany. Probably France is the most efficient to cover long distances. They have nice, good quality toll roads and you can maintain an average of 120-130 there on long stretches. Spain is pretty decent as well. Roads in Germany are garbage in comparison. There's a reason people are complaining about the state of infrastructure here.

I don't actually own a car and rent cars. Usually, I prefer taking the train, which is not a high speed train even but does that same journey in a bit under four hours. Cheaper, more comfortable, and I can take a nap/relax a bit. Sadly, rail infrastructure is also not in a great state here.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold my Tesla after 4 years, because I refused to own it out of warranty. No longer being associated with Musk is a bonus. During the 4 years, it needed servicing (for actual faults, not for maintenance) 13 times. 4 of those times were "Car is dead" and it had to be towed. To book service, you have to use the app. There's no phone number. You pick a date which is usually at least a week in advance, type in what's w…

Wow, that is crazy. I've come to think of cars, and maybe other big purchases, as you're purchasing a culture; the company that made it and will service it - it's why Toyota is so highly regarded. I own a 20yo Toyota Tacoma - and it's making more frequent shop visits now; and there are some good independent shops, but the Toyota guys really do a good job and over-communicate what's going on when they have your vehicl…

I went to regular maintenance at Toyota, air filter and oil change and they inspected the chassis and sent me a video. It was bit more expensive than normal shop, but very good service.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#208

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

Sorry, but this is hard to believe unless your specific Model 3 has a problem. I have a Model Y, several friends have Teslas, one uses his Model 3 for Uber. Everyone can get the expected range when doing 90 km/h in the summer, and at least half of the range on the highway in the winter, but usually more than that. Maybe your consumption is that much when going steeply uphill, but then you will have to come back down…

One reason for Tesla's success it shows accurate range.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#209
post #81
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the heater really use all that much energy? A home space heater is something on the order of 1 kW, which is a fraction of a percent of what is needed to move the car.

When I floor my non-Tesla EV, I can see an instantaneous power consumption of 80kW. That's when flooring it. A smoother drive is more like 10kW.

That's likely averaged out as 80kW when flooring it is only around 100hp. I know my Polestar hits a peak of around 300kW when you put your foot right down.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#210

Isnt the rated range always more than the actual you get? I have a friend who has a BYD Atto 3, rated range is 260 miles. Actual is 200 for city/town driving, 170 miles for motorway/highway driving.

Porsche loves to underpromise and overdeliver on their stats. The Taycan's EPA range is 318 mi, but Out of Spec tested one [0] to 367 mi @ 70mph in chilly weather.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAccv8Wuoys

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