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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#171

Post by rrr_oh_man »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #118
lnsru wrote: post #117

I have found Volkswagen’s range estimator and I think it’s trustworthy: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/charging... I think, the range from here could be estimated for similar Tesla models too. The fact is that WLTP is useless. I can do 2/3 WLTP range in summer and 1/3 WLTP range in winter on highway with long range Model Y. That’s bad joke. Luckily I drive long distances extremely seldom. Crawlin…

> Use our useful tool to get an estimated range based on factors such as your driving style, battery size and Volkswagen electric vehicle model. That’s such a VW sentence.

Seems I angered some VW PR people

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#172

Post by some1else »

elif wrote: post #86

Having road tripped from Florida to Washington and back in a big circle around the country, it is my firm belief that every single person complaining about the range estimates in a Tesla is speeding. By altering my driving style, I can get more range than the estimate. It's extremely predictable and accurate, to the point where I can notice the power drain from the self driving computers/cameras, arrive at the next s…

> There was a point in my road trip when I was on top of a mountain, and it said I would reach the next charger 100km away with 20km of range remaining, but I was only at 90km at the time. I made it with 17km of range remaining.

This is how regenerative braking works

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#173

Post by prmoustache »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #99
decimalenough wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is talking not about the route planner, which I agree usually gives very accurate estimates for specific routes , but the advertised theoretical driving "EPA ranges", which are quite inflated. However, from what I can tell, the EPA numbers from all manufacturers are quite unrealistic, because the methodology doesn't match real-world driving.

The problem with EPA range is that it's a compromise between highway range and city range, so it's almost guaranteed to poorly match your driving unless your daily driving mix equals the averages. This is a consequence of insisting on one number, not inflation. Inb4 "just pick highway range and be conservative" -- no, because then you will buy a car with great aerodynamics and terrible regen and spend all day driving…

EPA is a comparison tool, not a range estimation for everyone's regular drives.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#174

Post by prmoustache »

dyauspitr wrote: post #104
elif wrote: post #86

Having road tripped from Florida to Washington and back in a big circle around the country, it is my firm belief that every single person complaining about the range estimates in a Tesla is speeding. By altering my driving style, I can get more range than the estimate. It's extremely predictable and accurate, to the point where I can notice the power drain from the self driving computers/cameras, arrive at the next s…

Speeding is a given, even a necessity on most US highways. Everyone is speeding by 10 maybe even 15 mph as a baseline.

I don't think it is a necessity. People just don't generally have patience.

Generally people driving classic/collectible cars usually run at or below speed limits and...they are fine. You just have to embrace being overtaken by everyone.

It is especially hard for people suffering with fragile masculinity though.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#177

Post by modo_mario »

jbm wrote: post #22
sashank_1509 wrote: post #10

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave…

I'll be getting a leasing Hyundai Ionic 6 at the end of this month. Hit me up if you want my thoughts on it later.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#178

Post by gambiting »

ozim wrote: post #142
LeoPanthera wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold my Tesla after 4 years, because I refused to own it out of warranty. No longer being associated with Musk is a bonus. During the 4 years, it needed servicing (for actual faults, not for maintenance) 13 times. 4 of those times were "Car is dead" and it had to be towed. To book service, you have to use the app. There's no phone number. You pick a date which is usually at least a week in advance, type in what's w…

To be fair i don’t think there is a business where I can make an appointment in the same week. I have ICE and getting basic oil change must be week in advance even when I call, I never get “we can book you tomorrow”. Heck gettin haircut in my area they have calendars blocked so you have to plan with a week in advance. Super annoying as I have a simple cut and most of time it can be done in 15mins. Ok washing down cut…

>>To be fair i don’t think there is a business where I can make an appointment in the same week.

....where do you live where that's true??? I just checked with my local Volvo garage - I can get an appointment tomorrow. Checked with our local Volkswagen garage - I can get an appointment on Wednesday. And all the big name "express service" chains like Kwik-Fit or ATS will see you while you wait. That's literally their entire business model.

>>Heck gettin haircut in my area they have calendars blocked so you have to plan with a week in advance.

Again, where the hell do you live. I know my wife has to book a hairdresser because she usually spends 4 hours in there, but I have never in my life had to book a haircut, you pop over, wait 15 minutes max, maybe 20 if it's busy and you get a haircut.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#179

Post by magicalhippo »

jajko wrote: post #167
YZF wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd have to be really steep. Regenerative braking on a model 3 is pretty aggressive. You don't even use the brakes in normal driving. If you're starting off too cold that can be an issue though. I've driven in big mountains (Canada, BC) and while you're definitely using a lot more power on your way up you make up for it on the other side. I have worried about not making it to the top though (but it worked out fine f…

Had a recent talk with a colleague who owns one of earlier model S on exactly this. He often goes skiing up to Verbier in the Swiss alps, so similar situation and cold. He definitely burns through the battery much quicker in mountains, and going down it recoups just a small fraction of energy spent going up. Also cold messes up the numbers pretty significantly, I think he mentioned 10-15% of battery consumed standing…

It's quite easy to see this in an EV, as measuring power is quite trivial.

Cruising along on a level highway at around 60 MPH, my EV uses like 2-3% the available power. Going up a incline and you're suddenly way above 40%.

This should come as no surprise to those who have ridden a bicycle outside of Holland.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#180

Post by prmoustache »

gerdesj wrote: post #43
darth_avocado wrote: post #6

Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)

I also own an EV. Mine is a Seik MG4 (long range) - a Chinese beastie with an old school British marque slapped on it. I went to school in Abingdon, Oxon, which is where the Morris Garage comes from. My car didn't! There is a standard for range - WLTP - does the US subscribe to it? The W stands for Worldwide. My car has a WLTP range of 323 miles. I've managed better than that. The standard itself is pretty decent and…

> In Europe I think that EV vs !EV is almost certainly won

For people living in single family homes or in appartments with dedicated parking space, yes.

But lots of people are still living in apartments without a dedicated parking space. If you can't charge at home EV life is immediately a bit more compicated and expensive.

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