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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

131–140 of 287 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#131

Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)

Which ones? Model 3 standard advertised is 428 km (265miles).

Only time I've notice significantly lower range is on a hot day (38c/100f) when I had the aircon cranking for a nice cool inside temp of 20c.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#132
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tip: if you turn off both the overheat protection and sentry mode, the phantom drain becomes 0%. I know this because I left my car idle for 2 months and it only lost 1% during that time. It is fine to turn these off, other cars don't even have these and they are fine.

Don't you want the overheat protection at the end of a long drive? [edit: or is this just for the cabin temperature?] I've also noticed a bit of drain when camping. It doesn't help that you often open/close the doors/trunk to access stuff ;)

My understanding is that it is for the cabin.

BTW, for the cabin I did two things:

- I installed a permanent shade for the sun roof. The sun roof is the stupidest thing ever, I hate it.

- In the summer, I usually put one of those shiny umbrellas to the front windshield when parked.

These two things alone reduce the cabin heat to an okay level.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#134
If you're not familiar with this story, the headline misses what seems to me like the bigger scandal, of Tesla rigging a dashboard instrument to lie:

> Tesla years ago began exaggerating its vehicles’ potential driving distance – by rigging their range-estimating software. The company decided about a decade ago, for marketing purposes, to write algorithms for its range meter that would show drivers “rosy” projections for the distance it could travel on a full battery, according to a person familiar with an early design of the software for its in-dash readouts.

> Then, when the battery fell below 50% of its maximum charge, the algorithm would show drivers more realistic projections for their remaining driving range, this person said.

IIUC, when many individual drivers were realizing that the rigged instrument didn't agree with reality of their car, they assumed their car was broken, and initiated service requests.

To reduce the costs of being caught in a lie, Tesla then created a team to again lie to customers, but this time it's humans lying one-on-one, rather than lying via rigged instruments.

Also consider things like Full Sell Driving misrepresentations, mishandling sensitive video surveillance from the cars, quality problems, and occasional 'retaliations' against those who complain, and it looks like Tesla might have a culture of dishonesty.

Hopefully other Musk-controlled companies have better cultures, since some of them are being put into positions of trust for the broader country and world. (Broader than safety of occupants of Teslas and any innocent bystander the car might crash into or harm with fire.)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#135
post #107
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5% to 7% is pretty normal for me - in both summer and winter. This is just leaving the car in front of my house for a few hours (let's say I don't want to park it in the separate garage). https://imgdrop.io/image/IMG-2984.ADiI7 It's not the end of the world for driving around town with less than my whole family (which is 90% of my driving) but it's definitely annoying to come back to a car with 50% charge and see it…

Huh, that's quite a bit more than I would expect. You already ruled out the 12V battery in the other thread, but there could be some other factors that would keep your car awake. Does it only happen when you park in front of the garage at home, or does it also happen if you go out somewhere? For example, it might be struggling to connect to your WiFi at home (if you set it up with your home WiFi credentials) to downl…

First, I appreciate the suggestions; thank you.

The issues do happen a lot in front of my house (which has very poor cell phone coverage). I've had lessor drops elsewhere.

I was wondering about the wifi myself too. I don't have wifi in front of the house and I didn't configure wifi either; I've actually installed wifi in my garage and left the car inside to see and I would get similar power losses.

I wonder if there is (a) a battery warming issue or (b) an issue because my phone w/ the Tesla app & bluetooth on is too close to the car, leading to it not going into standby mode? I don't think it is the former because it would be categorised differently (and it would not happen in summer). Turning off bluetooth on my phone everytime I come inside is honestly a bit insane and I would put that in the "It's a Tesla App problem"; but I don't hear about that issue from other drivers.

The real unfortunate part is that there is no way for me to get this diagnosed. It's been a problem since I bought the car, but it seems to be getting worse over time.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#137

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

    > Also Tesla servicing is famously bad
I don't own a Tesla, let alone a car. What is "servicing" for a car? You go to the dealer when something is wrong/broken? Or do you call Tesla?

Also, can you give a specific example of how Tesla servicing is "famously bad"? (I'm not doubting, but it will help me to better understand your comment.)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#138

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

> Also Tesla servicing is famously bad I don't own a Tesla, let alone a car. What is "servicing" for a car? You go to the dealer when something is wrong/broken? Or do you call Tesla? Also, can you give a specific example of how Tesla servicing is "famously bad"? (I'm not doubting, but it will help me to better understand your comment.)

Yes

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting only 30% of the advertised range would be very unlikely unless you always drive uphill and in the cold. I've had a Model 3 and a Model Y, and would get at least 80-85% of the advertised range in average California weather.

If they were traveling uphill to work you’d think they would gain some of that back coming back downhill. But I’m guessing it might be very hilly terrain where the roads are not level at all. The crazier thing is that their commute is 60+ miles one way (based on saying they are lucky they can charge at work).

I assume they leave work on a full battery after charging there for free, limiting the advantage of regen braking

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#140

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

> Also Tesla servicing is famously bad I don't own a Tesla, let alone a car. What is "servicing" for a car? You go to the dealer when something is wrong/broken? Or do you call Tesla? Also, can you give a specific example of how Tesla servicing is "famously bad"? (I'm not doubting, but it will help me to better understand your comment.)

I sold my Tesla after 4 years, because I refused to own it out of warranty. No longer being associated with Musk is a bonus.

During the 4 years, it needed servicing (for actual faults, not for maintenance) 13 times.

4 of those times were "Car is dead" and it had to be towed.

To book service, you have to use the app. There's no phone number. You pick a date which is usually at least a week in advance, type in what's wrong, maybe attach a photo.

First, you'll get a reply in app's "chat" feature that your problem is actually normal, or it's somehow your fault, and it's not something they can fix.

After you've convinced them it's a real problem, your appointment comes around, and you take it into your service center, and wait about 30 minutes for someone to get around to seeing you. They repeat the previous message that it's your fault, or normal, etc. etc.

When they finally take it, there's zero feedback as to what's going on. In theory, you should get a loaner car while they repair, but they are usually "out".

3-14 days later, if you are lucky, your car is ready for pickup. No-one will be there to help you collect it, you just have to find it in the parking lot.

There's about a 50/50 chance of your problem being fixed, and 100% chance that they've added a couple of new ones. Your car will be filthy, inside and out, and need to be cleaned.

They also offer "mobile service" which is basically the same except they are rude to you in your driveway instead of at the service center.

Worst experience of any car. By far. Will never buy another one.

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