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I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

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Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#351

Post by baq »

gitgud wrote: post #243
abxyz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's probably the difference between "code" and "programming". An LLM can produce code and if you're willing to surrender to the LLMs version of whatever it is you ask for, then you can have a great and productive time. If you're opinionated about programming, LLMs fall short. Most people (software engineers, developers, whatever) are not "programmers" they're "coders" which is why they have a positive impres…

Interesting, but it seems ridiculous to disambiguate “Programmer” vs “Coder”. They’re synonymous words and mean the same thing right? Person who writes logic for machines

Yeah this one is dumb.

The real distinction is programmer vs software engineer, or IOW do you want to write code or solve problems?

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#352

Post by nprateem »

raylad wrote: post #115

I tried it on a small Django app and was not impressed in the end. It looks like it’s doing a lot, and at first I was very impressed, but after a while I realized that when it ran into a problem it kept on trying nonworking strategies even though it had tried them before and I had added to claude.md instructions to keep track of strategies and not reuse failing ones. It was able to make a little progress, but not get…

I use it like a brush for new apps and a scalpel for existing ones and it generally works well. If it can't solve something after 3 attempts though I just do it.

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#353

Post by baq »

rs186 wrote: post #233
frankc wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the interest has more to do with who is doing the tweeting, don't you think?

Reminder: "appeal to authority" is a classical logical fallacy. For me, I don't know this person, which means that all the words are completely meaningless. Which is exactly the point.

When Karpathy and Yegge speak, I listen. When they say approximately the same things, I listen carefully.

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#354

Post by rw2 »

I tried this vs Cline/Aider/Lovable.

For full stack, I would say Lovable is the best, for complexity, I think Cline is the best.

Claude Code with the several request I gave it just produced code that didn't run. I think it has a long way to go.

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#355

Post by bhaney »

baq wrote: post #348
radlad wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't necessarily saying it can replace you. They're saying that even though it's expensive, it's cheaper than your time (which can be better spent on other tasks, as you point out.)

The first half is correct, but the conclusions shouldn’t be ‘we’re replicating our software engineers with Claude today’, they’re ‘our experienced engineers just 10x their productivity, we’ll never need to hire an intern’

You mean "our experienced engineers just 10x'd their productivity, so we can fire 90% of them"

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#356

Post by baq »

leptons wrote: post #334
rglover wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite possibly one of the most disturbing things I've seen in awhile. Sure, for fun and one-off private apps this is fine, but the second that some buzzed-on-the-sides haircut guy thinks this is the way , the chaos will rival a Hollywood disaster movie.

>" The practice defies the belief in the software industry that software engineering demands great skill. " But actual software engineering does demand great skill. What "vibe coders" are doing isn't engineering. It's not even programming. It's like calling yourself a chef when you microwaved a frozen meal.

Not even programming? That’s even better!

Great engineers know that code is 10-20% of the whole solution to a problem and it doesn’t matter too much. Code is not an asset, it’s a liability.

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#357

Post by leoedin »

stevage wrote: post #339
artdigital wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I did a few small taks with Claude Code after seeing this discussion here and is too expensive for me. A small change to create a script file (20 LoC) was 10cts, a quick edit to a README was 7ct Yes yes engineers make more than that blah blah but the cost would quickly jump out of control for bigger tasks. I’d easy burn through $10-20 upwards a day with this, or upwards $100-$300 a month. Unless you have a…

It's an interesting question. As a freelance consultant, theoretically a tool like this could allow me to massively scale up my income, assuming I could find enough clients. I'm a bit nervous where I'd end up though - with code I'd "written" but wasn't familiar with, and with who knows what kinds of limitations or subtle bugs baked in.

> I'm a bit nervous where I'd end up though - with code I'd "written" but wasn't familiar with

This does seem like quite a big downside. It turns every new feature into “implement this in someone else’s code base”. I imagine you’d very quickly have complete dependency on the AI. Maybe that’s an inevitability in this new world?

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#358

Post by crucialfelix »

jmull wrote: post #190
fallinditch wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried using Cursor rules? [1] Creating a standard library stdlib with many (potentially thousands) of rules, and then iteratively adding to and amending the rules as you go, is one of the best practices for successful AI coding. [1] https://docs.cursor.com/context/rules-for-ai

> …many (potentially thousands) of rules, and then iteratively adding to and amending the rules as you go… Is this an especially better (easier, more efficient) route to a working, quality app/system than conventional programming? I’m skeptical if the answer to the way to achieve 10x results is 10x more effort.

I think specifying rules could be very useful in the same way as types, documentation, coding styles, advanced linting, semgrep etc.

We could use it for LLM driven coding style linting. Generate PRs for refactoring. Business logic bug detector

Also, you can just tell copilot to write rules for you.

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#359

Post by abxyz »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #298
abxyz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's probably the difference between "code" and "programming". An LLM can produce code and if you're willing to surrender to the LLMs version of whatever it is you ask for, then you can have a great and productive time. If you're opinionated about programming, LLMs fall short. Most people (software engineers, developers, whatever) are not "programmers" they're "coders" which is why they have a positive impres…

> Programmers laughed at the absurdity of left-pad[1] ("why use a dependency for 16 lines of code?") I'm confused. Did they laugh, then still use it as a dependency? If not, did they reinvent the wheel or copy the 16 lines into their project? Right up until the day of the "NPM left-pad incident" tiny dependencies were working just fine. Also, if you cannot tell the difference between code written by an LLM or a human…

My comment isn't intended to pit "programmers" against "coders" or suggest that one is better than the other. I think the distinction is useful to help people understand why LLMs can be game-changing for some, and useless for others, because our attitudes towards programming/code can be so different.

If you go through and read the left-pad posts here on hn, you'll find people at both extremes: some fiercely defend left-pad as useful and worthwhile and think writing left-pad yourself is dumb-as-hell, and then at the other end you'll find some fiercely deride using left-pad as absurd when they could just write the code themselves. Here's a good thread to start with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11348798

Personally, I'd rather hire a "coder" than a "programmer" and consider myself more "coder" than "programmer" :)

Re: I've been using Claude Code for a couple of days

#360

Post by bryanrasmussen »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #294
personjerry wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a steal? Engineers are paid much more to do much less

Tangential, but this reminds me of something someone said on Twitter that has resonated with me ever since. Startups targeting developers / building developer tooling are arguably one of the worst startups to build, because no matter how much of a steal the price is relative to the value you get, developers insist they can build their own or get by with an open-source competitor. We're as misguided on value as we are…

>We're as misguided on value as we are on efficiency and automation (more specifically, the old trope of a dev spending hours to automate something that takes minutes to do).

but automating something that takes minutes to do is Larry Wall's example of programmer laziness, and is a virtue.

of course - this needs obligatory conflicting XKCD comics

automation makes you do more work: https://xkcd.com/1319/

is it worth the time to automate https://xkcd.com/1205/

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