Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 287 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#121

Post by [deleted] »

devanl wrote: post #73
jbm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that's a definite issue for the generation of Model 3 that I have. I had to disable sentry because it was taking a significant chunk too (and I didn't even bother putting a disk inside).

While the idle draw is relatively high on Teslas compared to other EVs (even without sentry mode enabled), 7.5% is quite high. I track my stats with Teslamate and it estimates typical SoC loss of 1% over a day. What I have seen is that the BMS may update its SoC estimate after driving, and I've seen it adjust the estimated SoC up or down by as much as 5% in some cases. I get that from a planning perspective, it still…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#122

Post by peterisza »

jbm wrote: post #22
sashank_1509 wrote: post #10

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave…

Tip: if you turn off both the overheat protection and sentry mode, the phantom drain becomes 0%. I know this because I left my car idle for 2 months and it only lost 1% during that time.

It is fine to turn these off, other cars don't even have these and they are fine.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#123

Post by Panzer04 »

tonymet wrote: post #76
natch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving style and speed also factor into it. My car doesn't get anything near the advertised mileage but that's because of speed and driving style. I'm thrilled with it. On long road trips I fill (charge) to about 1.5X my expected driving mileage, and don't have any problems. If, however, I was worried about the number, I would drive a different car… but then life would be no fun.

I hear you, but during my testing I’ve been driving like a grandma , and I usually drive tame enough to exceed Gas EPA estimates by 15%, so I was really shocked to have terrible EV range. In my 270 mile test I was under 60 for 85% of the trip, and never over 75

Are you driving like a grandma slow acceleration or are you driving at low speed?

The latter is much, much more important at highway speeds.

Apparently the EPA test is run at 60mph Max and an average of 50mph, which would to a significant extent explain the difference if you averaged 65mph or similar. They also weight and combine it with city miles, which is probably even more generous to EVs with regen braking.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#124

Post by thepasswordis »

delichon wrote: post #27
darth_avocado wrote: post #6

Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)

Subtracting the politics but including the actual range, do you regret the purchase?

No. I absolutely love my car. I have put 60,000 miles on mine in 3 years, largely from long cross country road trips. It's far and away my favorite driving experience of any car I've ever driven.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#125

Post by YZF »

acchow wrote: post #108
sashank_1509 wrote: post #10

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

If the gradient is steep enough then you would not be recouping most of the energy going back downhill because your brakes will be burning off the energy. Uphill and downhills is a combination where the estimated range might be thrown off entirely, depending on situation. Regardless, even with a small gradient, the kinetic energy can never need 100% converted back into stored energy into the battery. There will alway…

It'd have to be really steep. Regenerative braking on a model 3 is pretty aggressive. You don't even use the brakes in normal driving. If you're starting off too cold that can be an issue though. I've driven in big mountains (Canada, BC) and while you're definitely using a lot more power on your way up you make up for it on the other side. I have worried about not making it to the top though (but it worked out fine for my trips).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#126

Post by lfsh »

decimalenough wrote: post #64
Spivak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might not actually be a downhill return trip if the commute involves going over a bunch of hills as is common in a pretty well known city that both has a lot of teslas and fits the parent's description.

If so, they'll get much of the energy expended going uphill back on the downhills, thanks to regenerative braking.

You assume the battery conditions stay the same.

But what if the battery heats up a lot during a climb and is still hot while going down? It is know batteries charge slow when they are hot.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#127

Post by YZF »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #119
starspangled wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Were you mislead about or unaware of the range claims when you bought the car? I don't own an EV or have any real interest in the…

The 270 actually 120 is a bit dramatic, but it does highlight a lot of the fundamental problems with range in EVs, especially the "200 miles is enough" crowd. 1) for battery preservation, you generally do not fully charge every night. So, lose 10% from that 2) battery degradation, things are better, but 10% max loss is common I would say 3) people drive faster than testing. Knock off about 10% for that 4) cold? hot?…

I've done road trips on my SR+ model 3 and it hasn't been a big problem. What is a problem is if you're going somewhere that has no chargers (or no superchargers).

If you have a big trip then you can charge to 100% if you need to.

Yes, if you go faster you'll use more energy per km. If you're pushing it then you're going to want to slow down a little.

In my "daily" driving I use about 20%-30% of capacity max and I have a pretty long commute. I tend to keep my battery around 50% most of the time and not go too low or too high.

There are certainly trips to remote places that I can't do with my EV and I have made some adjustments to trip plans to accommodate but all in all it's been a non-issue.

Btw, if we're running down a list of issues then phantom drain is another one. I do worry about energy loss when camping e.g. I've had a situation where I got to the campground with ~20% and the next day in the cold was something like ~10% and barely made it to the charger.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#128

Post by YZF »

peterisza wrote: post #122
jbm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave…

Tip: if you turn off both the overheat protection and sentry mode, the phantom drain becomes 0%. I know this because I left my car idle for 2 months and it only lost 1% during that time. It is fine to turn these off, other cars don't even have these and they are fine.

Don't you want the overheat protection at the end of a long drive? [edit: or is this just for the cabin temperature?]

I've also noticed a bit of drain when camping. It doesn't help that you often open/close the doors/trunk to access stuff ;)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#130

Post by sashank_1509 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #15
sashank_1509 wrote: post #10

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

what's the mileage like when you take into account the downhill return trip? Unless your commute is uphill both ways through the snow :)

So I lose around 20% when going uphill to office. and I lose 10% when going downhill back home, clearly downhill is much better, but it’s not like I get back charge
Post reply on HN