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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#911

Post by brokenmachine »

ProcNetDev wrote: post #438
moduspol wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually we just want the war in Ukraine to end. Hope that helps. There's a lot of bloviating from the chattering class about cozying up to Russia, but I've yet to hear a cogent alternative. And no, I don't think "endlessly funding Ukraine to a forever stalemate" qualifies.

You want the war to end so that Russians can do what they did to Bucha a thousand more times! You want the war to end so that Poland, Japan, Taiwan and Australia no longer trust that the US will help them and develop their own nuclear weapons!

I'm Australian and I already don't trust the US to help us.

I've literally never thought that the US wouldn't help us before Trump came to shit on everything.

Now I imagine we'd have to buy Trump off with "raw earth" or something in exchange for not being abandoned to China, and our head of state would quite possibly be berated publicly for wanting some kind of security guarantee for his people's future.

It's sad, I still feel like the US and UK people are closest to our values, but Trump only works for himself and his billionaire crony parasites.

He will end up with the loyalty he has earned.

Everyone around Trump hates him, and the US is heading in the same direction.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#912

Post by jjk166 »

Chance-Device wrote: post #740
bitcurious wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more prediction: a number of our allies will test domestically built nuclear weapons, including Germany, Poland, and South Korea.

Unlikely. Nuclear independence threatens US hegemony. It won’t be allowed to happen. The US wants Europe stronger, not independent.

The US has no power to stop it anymore. Nuclear non-proliferation relied on America guaranteeing security and coordinating the rest of the world to ostracize any country that didn't play by its rules - that's out the window. Countries that feel immediately threatened will go for the bomb, and other countries will do nothing to interfere so they keep their own options open.

Poland has already announced it's looking to acquire nuclear weapons.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#913

Post by ipv6ipv4 »

brokenmachine wrote: post #905
ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am really amazed there are still almost half of the people able to twist reality to defend what is a direct attack against their own personal interests (they have proven already that other's interests do not matter for them). This sounds like self-flagellation seen from the outside. They aren't thinking, really. If you look at the online comments from people who support these actions, you'll notice these characte…

Bots. It's bots. Some idiots, but mostly bots.

I used to believe that. Trump got elected twice. And now he's spewing the most ridiculous lies that are swallowed whole by the MAGA faithful (don't get me wrong, there are similar problems on the other side of the political spectrum. Each side occupies their own bubble). I don't believe it is bots anymore. Now even real people on LinkedIn are posting with the same characteristics.

There are some bots, for sure. There are disinformation campaigns but people are organically amplifying them. While social media is artificially amplifying them to maximize engagement. The social media amplification is why many of these people are so angry. Anger is the ultimate engagement hack.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#914

Post by brokenmachine »

nxm wrote: post #393
fvrther wrote: post #375

France sending jets while the U.S. waves the white flag? Looks like the surrender baton just got passed westward.

Sigh… a few jets can’t compare to level of aid American tax payer has given the past few years. More than OK with France finally doing something.

The "aid" that the US has given mostly helps the US get rid of their older weapons that they would have to pay to dispose of, and that "aid" money stays in the US, helping US industries and making US jobs.

But I wouldn't expect a businessman the calibre of Trump, who has managed to bankrupt multiple casinos, to understand any of that.

Maybe more tariffs will help the American tax payers.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#915

Post by cutemonster »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #268
mrweasel wrote: post #175

So in the article, they talk about the AN/ALQ-131 jammer. It needs to be updated by the US, to keep up with the Russia counter measures, that's what's stopping. At least the F-16 donated by Denmark will most likely have pylons from Terma (ECIPS), which should work with the CJS from Leonardo (ECIPS/CJS). Shouldn't be to hard for Europe to make the required pylons for the planes who don't have the ECIPS and for those t…

And the article itself appears to be making some logical leaps. It says it's getting its information from a Forbes article, but the information in the Forbes article is simply this[1]: > But the Russian air force could sidestep the jamming by reprogramming their radars to operate at slightly different frequencies. Under Biden, the USAF team might’ve kept pace with Russian adaptation by constantly adjusting the AN/ALQ…

The Forbes article also says:

> U.S. President Donald Trump has halted U.S. aid to Ukraine, including vital support for the F-16s’ radar jammers.

> That could deprive the Ukrainian air force of its most important aerial countermeasures at a critical moment

That does sound really bad, I think.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#916

Post by bjelkeman-again »

d4vlx wrote: post #683
galleywest200 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and its superiority is front and center. The vast majority of the comments I am reading on this site are not stating this. The vast majority, even the Americans, are agreeing that this is a bad decision. Unsure where you got this from.

I think he is referring to the F-35 only here. On military discussion forums it is the consensus that the F-35 is superior to everything else out there with the only exception being that the F-22 has superior air to air combat capabilities.

I have seen interviews with Norwegian pilots responsible for integrating F-35 into Norway’s airforce. Reading between the lines was that it seemed “complex”. I’m not site it is buggy, or overly complicated or what.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#917

Post by ashoeafoot »

9283409232 wrote: post #245
epistasis wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to China, even they are "appalled" by what Trump is doing to cause chaos with Europe and to abandon Ukraine by holding talks about Ukraine without Ukraine: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/china-appalled-by-tru...

China isn't actually appalled but they are trying to slip into America's spot in the world and they will likely do so successfully.

You misunderstood them. They want to slip into the power vacuum the us implosion generated, but they want to establish a world order similar to the colonial British Empire . Its in all their speaches and documents , if you care to read and listen. They are quite open about it ,like putin.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#919

Post by wqaatwt »

whymeogod wrote: post #828
guerrilla wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. What's with the US approach then? In general, it seems like lean forces tend to win. Afghanistan (twice) and Vietnam, for example. The Houthis as another example.

I thought the US lost in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Am I misunderstanding something in your post?

Politically, not militarily. Same in Afghanistan. US could and did easily win the conventional parts of both conflicts. They lost because they didn’t know what to do after that or didn’t want to escalate it into a full scale war (Vietnam).

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#920

Post by wqaatwt »

guerrilla wrote: post #820
Animats wrote: post #801

Sweden will reportedly be supplying Ukraine with Saab-built Gripen fighters.[1][2] Maybe. Apparently Sweden has been holding off on transfer of 14 Gripens while Ukraine was learning to use and service F-16s. The Gripen has advantages for Ukraine. It's a more rugged aircraft, with lower maintenance demands and lower operating cost. It can operate from very basic airstrips and roads. Saab boasts about this.[3] Their pi…

Fascinating. What's with the US approach then? In general, it seems like lean forces tend to win. Afghanistan (twice) and Vietnam, for example. The Houthis as another example.

The Taliban/Mujahideen didn’t win per se, they just survived long enough for the foreign “empires” to lose interest.

Vietnam wasn’t a conventional conflict either. If you’re willing to lose complete control of most of “your” country and sustain 10x higher casualties than your opponent you might have a chance, but that’s an extremely steep price to pay.

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