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Layoffs Don't Work

thehustle.co

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Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#631

Post by margalabargala »

absolutelastone wrote: post #558
margalabargala wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the person you originally replied to mentioned having a disability, and your response was "yeah but you have kids so really you chose this and also I disagree that life is harder for some people." The generous interpretation would be that you have sufficiently good health that you do not have to structure your life around it, and therefore lack understanding of the challenges faced by those who do. The alternat…

So you took the generous route in publicly shaming them. I think their quibble was with a different item being used as evidence there (i.e., having a family), not necessarily with all that was said.

I didn't publicly shame anyone. I pointed out their clear position of privilege to help them learn to apply empathy.

I think helping one another to build empathy is a good thing, and even if the person I replied to is unable to do so, it's possible that observing them tell a disabled person that they don't think their life is any harder will help other third parties such as yourself build that empathy.

I did not flag their original comment, but it's not for no reason it was flagged to death.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#632

Post by johnnyanmac »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #200
WalterBright wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm unclear what employers are deriving from this exercise at this point It filters out the complete frauds. Yes, there are people who know all the right things to say in a job interview, but cannot code at all. If you hire one of them, it takes a bit to find out they cannot code, and a bit longer to fire them, so you're out $$$$ paying their salaries for nothing. For example, a recruiter I know will ask a tech can…

I have done probably 500 to 1000 tech screens for big tech companies (as the interviewer) and this is completely true. I have interviewed many people employed in tech as programmers for their entire career and they can't code. I don't meen leetcode, I mean they get confused trying to write brute force substring search. The nested for loop seems to be too complex for them to keep in their head all at once. I have had…

At that point I have to ask if your screening is really working. There's hundreds, thousands of potential SWEs that can be productive, but you keep picking people who struggle with CS101 problems?

You sure it's not nepotism, or an inability to make sure the resume fits the person? Or any other number of non-merit based criteria from HR?

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#633

Post by johnnyanmac »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #501
throwaway3572 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an electrical engineer who does circuit design. I’ve interviewed many electrical engineers over the years and the situation of applicants having “years” of experience while simultaneously not knowing how to design a single circuit is real. In our field it’s usually because although the person’s title is engineer, in practice, they don’t do any engineering. There’s just a ton of peripheral work (basically paperwor…

10% of applicants that make it to a phone screen. I estimate that the number is much lower than 10% overall because incompetent people with good looking resumes tend to do a lot more interviews than good candidates.

Sounds like the resume screening is either non-existent or insufficient then.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#634

Post by johnnyanmac »

suzzer99 wrote: post #492
geoka9 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another extreme, too: people who can code up an app in a matter of days, but can never learn to navigate and successfully maintain a legacy code base (even their own!).

And there's no easy objective way to screen for this in a job interview. So they pretend it doesn't exist and never ask questions like: "Suppose you're designing a green-field app that you think will grow over time like X, Y, and Z. How would you design and organize your code so that the app stays maintainable and flexible over time?" I could talk for hours on this subject with concrete examples if anyone ever asked.…

Nothing on interviews is objective to begin with, so we can discount that.

Your template sounds like a fine way to ask such a question. I think the issue is managers or someone above simply don't want to invest in proper interview questions and instead just do that FAANG does. Even though very few companies need such core algorithmic knowledge but need people who can properly navigate legacy code. FAANGs will actually make sure new hires learn the code base, unlike many companies thst want you to "hit the ground running".

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#635

Post by johnnyanmac »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #354
throwaway151883 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> check if text has mismatched parens I always try to give everyone I’ve interviewed the benefit of the doubt. You never know what’s going on in their lives, and even if they fail a trivial question it doesn’t mean they are faking the ability to code. I joined Facebook back in 2018. Didn’t study at all for the interview and passed somehow. Then I probably conducted 200-300 interviews in my time there, so I became qui…

I run coding interviews at BIGCO. Half of the candidate success relies on the skills of the interviewer. A bad interviewer can bomb the best candidates. Something I have changed my stance on a bit is automated coding interviews. I used to be adamantly against a company giving candidates automated code tests, but I see now that it takes the interviewer out of the equation.

>but I see now that it takes the interviewer out of the equation.

Well yes, that's why I'm against it. A one way "interview" is an audition, not an interview. There's nothing worse than wasting 2, 5, 10+ hours on something that ends up with a template rejection letter.

That's great for the interviewer, but devastating for the interviewee. They can't even get feedback on how to improve.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#636

Post by kahirsch »

nis0s wrote: post #618

The most direct way that the U.S. government can control inflation is via layoffs of federal workers. Private companies are jumping on the bandwagon to get rid of hires made during more booming times. The fact is that higher interest rates have cooled down investments, which factors into the decisions made by companies to fire staff. Note though that companies which actually build stuff, like Apple, are adding jobs,…

> The most direct way that the U.S. government can control inflation is via layoffs of federal workers.

I'm not sure what you're claiming here. Civilian employees are less than 3% of federal spending, so it won't have a measurable effect on spending. Some employees, like IRS employees, bring in revenue.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#637

Post by fullstackchris »

Americans perplex me (and I am one) we live in the most capitalist focused economy in the world and yet everyone acts that they are guaranteed a job. Sorry, but even in "socialist countries" in Europe / rest of world this is not even the case. Then the country turns around and elects someone like trump - thinking collectively someone like that will improve this situation?

Especially the FAANG folks - they get pissed when getting fired from there like DUDE you are literally in the top 0.01 of earners on the planet get over yourself. Poor financial planning and overleveraging yourself are not excuses when you get laid off / fired!!!

Just go read stuff on Blind for more of what I am talking about... i.e "got laid off... nervous to retire with 7 million?!?" like hey, some of us here will probably never see that kind of money in our entire lives

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#638

Post by __turbobrew__ »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #635
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run coding interviews at BIGCO. Half of the candidate success relies on the skills of the interviewer. A bad interviewer can bomb the best candidates. Something I have changed my stance on a bit is automated coding interviews. I used to be adamantly against a company giving candidates automated code tests, but I see now that it takes the interviewer out of the equation.

>but I see now that it takes the interviewer out of the equation. Well yes, that's why I'm against it. A one way "interview" is an audition, not an interview. There's nothing worse than wasting 2, 5, 10+ hours on something that ends up with a template rejection letter. That's great for the interviewer, but devastating for the interviewee. They can't even get feedback on how to improve.

Nobody is going to give an interviewee feedback, even if they are interviewed by a human. There is too much legal risk to open the company up to discrimination lawsuits.

There is also nothing worse than wasting 2, 5, 10+ hours on an in person interview to just have the interviewer flunk you our be unfair to you.

I still believe that personal interviews are important, I'm just raising the fact that a large portion of an interviewee's success is based upon their interviewer.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#639

Post by joquarky »

filoleg wrote: post #160
Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

I have pretty severe social anxiety and this industry was a refuge for me.

The added social and political mental load that has crept in over the past decade or so has effectively pushed me to burnout.

And I was a happy "lifer" making subpar salary writing government software. I got to work in a large dark office with other nerds and joked about esoteric things.

But once software development became formalized, homogenized, and micromanaged, I couldn't conform.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#640

Post by dartos »

austin-cheney wrote: post #165
dartos wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got news for you. It’s not the devs who are bloating development costs. It’s the layers of management making hour long meetings to discuss button placement. It’s the hours of retros, design meetings, and skip-levels designed to remove any personal investment or sense of ownership from everything. Since so few individuals are trusted with real decision making power, you need a lot more people to achieve some kind of c…

It’s the devs too. Do you really need an army of developers to build a web app or put text onto screen? No, a small team can easily handle that much faster and at higher quality without all the framework bullshit. You also have to consider that developers are not sales people. They are a cost center.

> you really need an army of developers to build a web app or put text onto screen? No, a small team can easily handle that much faster and at higher quality without all the framework bullshit

… devs don’t hire the teams… management does…

Most devs I worked with prefer smaller teams.

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