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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#71

Post by Rebelgecko »

zfg wrote: post #62
BluSyn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can Tesla advertise a “more accurate” number if they are required by regulation to use EPA estimate? EPA range estimates being inaccurate is a real problem. They do not, and are not designed to, give actual expected range. It’s meant to be an “average” of “mixed” driving. Take latest Model Y as example. If you compare EPA range vs WLTP (commonly used in EU) 327mi EPA est. (526km) US version (long range) / 586km W…

> How can Tesla advertise a “more accurate” number if they are required by regulation to use EPA estimate? By also providing the worst case scenario numbers in addition to the EPA numbers. Tesla could simply do a highway range test at 70mph, ideally in Winter: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ They could also show towing range: https://insideevs.com/news/713690/tesla-cybertruck-range-dro...…

The worst case scenario is pretty much unbounded. 80mph range will be worse than 70mph. But it's still better than range at 90mph or 100mph.

I guess you could use the highest legal speed limit in the US alongside the lowest temp and fastest headwinds ever recorded in Texas. In conjunction with the heaviest, least aerodynamic thing that the vehicle can physically tow.

But that may be annoying to replicate in a controlled setting and will be even less relevant to most people than the EPA distance.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#72

Post by DecentShoes »

londons_explore wrote: post #5

The article really focusses on range loss when cold, but as far as I can see that isn't really true. The reality is there is lots of range loss when using the cabin heater, which obviously one is most likely to do when cold. All modern Tesla's use heat pumps for cabin heating, which ~halves the range loss, but it's still substantial.

Considering this, plus the fact that it's just annoying, it's strange that they don't let you turn the heated steering wheel or seat on without turning the heater on. It's literally not permitted. I have to work around it by setting the fan to 1 manually every time.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#73

Post by devanl »

jbm wrote: post #33
tredre3 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idle draw is a pretty common complaint for Teslas.

Yes, I think that's a definite issue for the generation of Model 3 that I have. I had to disable sentry because it was taking a significant chunk too (and I didn't even bother putting a disk inside).

While the idle draw is relatively high on Teslas compared to other EVs (even without sentry mode enabled), 7.5% is quite high. I track my stats with Teslamate and it estimates typical SoC loss of 1% over a day.

What I have seen is that the BMS may update its SoC estimate after driving, and I've seen it adjust the estimated SoC up or down by as much as 5% in some cases.

I get that from a planning perspective, it still stinks to have range than you thought you did an hour ago, but it's not all that different from the variation you might get with an analog dial on the gas tank, just that it's much easier to notice and track when it's digital and showed as a precise number.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#74

Post by darknavi »

rockinghigh wrote: post #18
sashank_1509 wrote: post #10

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

Getting only 30% of the advertised range would be very unlikely unless you always drive uphill and in the cold. I've had a Model 3 and a Model Y, and would get at least 80-85% of the advertised range in average California weather.

Looking at Tessie, my Model Y's lifetime average is 83% (289 Wh/mi at ~40,000 miles) and my Model 3's average is also 83% (280 Wh/mi at ~53,000 miles).

Most of my driving is in the Washington/PNW, so a bit more hilly and colder than California.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#76

Post by tonymet »

natch wrote: post #69
tonymet wrote: post #31

I recently purchased new Y long range with “337” miles . Apparently EPA also applies a 0.7 handicap factor — a policy added in 2017 to address misleading range listings. My first 180m test drive completed within expectations , so things seemed great. I then did what should have been an easy 270 mile drive and the planner warned it would not make it . I stopped in for a 10 mile top up and arrived with just 16 miles re…

Driving style and speed also factor into it. My car doesn't get anything near the advertised mileage but that's because of speed and driving style. I'm thrilled with it. On long road trips I fill (charge) to about 1.5X my expected driving mileage, and don't have any problems. If, however, I was worried about the number, I would drive a different car… but then life would be no fun.

I hear you, but during my testing I’ve been driving like a grandma , and I usually drive tame enough to exceed Gas EPA estimates by 15%, so I was really shocked to have terrible EV range. In my 270 mile test I was under 60 for 85% of the trip, and never over 75

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#78

Post by Panzer04 »

onemoresoop wrote: post #39
colordrops wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do gas cars get advertised mileage on steep hills? I don't believe so.

You’re right but the difference isn’t as big as from the advertised 270 to 90-120. Also electric cars suffer from battery degradation which hampers the range quite a bit.

Are you sure about that? If you go only uphill in a gas car you will use a lot more fuel per km, just like an EV.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#79

Post by bdcravens »

onemoresoop wrote: post #39
colordrops wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do gas cars get advertised mileage on steep hills? I don't believe so.

You’re right but the difference isn’t as big as from the advertised 270 to 90-120. Also electric cars suffer from battery degradation which hampers the range quite a bit.

I don't think batteries degrade that much that fast. I would imagine it's akin to gas cars, where you lose about 10% or so in efficiency after you put on a lot of miles, like 100k. (My EV6 seems to be as efficient as when I bought it in 2022, but my driving style is all over the place, so it's hard to measure from one charge to the next if I'm feeling a bit spirited in my driving that day)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#80

Post by jbm »

devanl wrote: post #73
jbm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that's a definite issue for the generation of Model 3 that I have. I had to disable sentry because it was taking a significant chunk too (and I didn't even bother putting a disk inside).

While the idle draw is relatively high on Teslas compared to other EVs (even without sentry mode enabled), 7.5% is quite high. I track my stats with Teslamate and it estimates typical SoC loss of 1% over a day. What I have seen is that the BMS may update its SoC estimate after driving, and I've seen it adjust the estimated SoC up or down by as much as 5% in some cases. I get that from a planning perspective, it still…

5% to 7% is pretty normal for me - in both summer and winter. This is just leaving the car in front of my house for a few hours (let's say I don't want to park it in the separate garage).

https://imgdrop.io/image/IMG-2984.ADiI7

It's not the end of the world for driving around town with less than my whole family (which is 90% of my driving) but it's definitely annoying to come back to a car with 50% charge and see it with 43. I imagine it would be terrifying for a 20 -> 13, especially with the lack of supercharging infrastructure where I live (Calgary).

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