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Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

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Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#111
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say POSIX is sometimes overrated. Example: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/commit/1e70e82baa91 Anyway, I don't see any of that as a reason for not having ripgrep installed everywhere by default and as an argument for not using it.

It doesn’t matter if it’s over or underrated - what matters is if you want to be compatible with existing code and documentation. I wish C didn’t have strtok, but it’s too late.

I don't specifically want to be compatible with it, no. I mean if ripgrep works for my needs - I'll use it and won't worry if it's POSIX compatible or not.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#112
post #40

Seems this project is MIT-licensed. That is fine, but I cannot help this is a way to get Corporations from following the GPL. I wonder if Linux is re-written i rust will it too remove GPL as a factor ? Again due to the license choice I tend to believe this can be seen as a way to move Linux to a Microsoft Type Windows System.

> I wonder if Linux is re-written i(n) (sic) rust will it too remove GPL as a factor ?

No reason it must? AFAIK all Rust for Linux code is GPL2. For example see: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/rust/kernel/al...

If some was or were to be licensed as MIT code, there is also plenty of dual licensed code in the Linux kernel.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#113
post #29

Rewriting GPL software under the MIT license is a terrible thing to do. The GPL is meant to protect and preserve what should be basic human rights. So-called "permissive" licenses are meant to provide big tech with free labour.

The problem with your argument is that the GPL has not only provided the corporate world with free labor, but with a licensing model that big corporations now like for their own stuff, because it lets them license the code to other parties while retaining important advantages over those parties.

GNU and Linux are the engine that powers practically every form of online harm.

The best licenses are BSD and MIT and others of that sort; they have no naive pretense of not helping corporations: everyone can do almost whatever they want, be they a large business or an individual. These licenses also don't encourage unlevel playing fields where the copyright proprietor enjoys dominance in the ecosystem.

For instance, if you are licensee under the BSD2, the only thing you cannot do, in comparison with the copyright holder, is remove copyright notices from the documentation or other materials accompanying the compiled code. This is really a minor thing which only stands in the way of those who want to be outright plagiarists.

With the GPL, it's extremely important to be the copyright holder, so that you can litigate. That's why the Free Software Foundation and GNU Project require copyright assignment for all non-trivial contributions to every project. If your program is a patchwork of files, each copyright someone else, you can't litigate infringement cases easily.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#114
post #29

Rewriting GPL software under the MIT license is a terrible thing to do. The GPL is meant to protect and preserve what should be basic human rights. So-called "permissive" licenses are meant to provide big tech with free labour.

The problem with your argument is that the GPL has not only provided the corporate world with free labor, but with a licensing model that big corporations now like for their own stuff, because it lets them license the code to other parties while retaining important advantages over those parties. GNU and Linux are the engine that powers practically every form of online harm. The best licenses are BSD and MIT and other…

>The best licenses are BSD and MIT and others of that sort; they have no naive pretense of not helping corporations: everyone can do almost whatever they want, be they a large business or an individual. These licenses also don't encourage unlevel playing fields where the copyright proprietor enjoys dominance in the ecosystem.

The project owner ALWAYS has dominance in the ecosystem. At least with GPL the owner is protected from someone else scooping up the project to make a closed version. How would you feel if you made an awesome open project only for someone to copy it and close the source, make minor changes, and sell it without even giving you the changes? That crap is not possible with GPL.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your argument is that the GPL has not only provided the corporate world with free labor, but with a licensing model that big corporations now like for their own stuff, because it lets them license the code to other parties while retaining important advantages over those parties. GNU and Linux are the engine that powers practically every form of online harm. The best licenses are BSD and MIT and other…

>The best licenses are BSD and MIT and others of that sort; they have no naive pretense of not helping corporations: everyone can do almost whatever they want, be they a large business or an individual. These licenses also don't encourage unlevel playing fields where the copyright proprietor enjoys dominance in the ecosystem. The project owner ALWAYS has dominance in the ecosystem. At least with GPL the owner is prot…

The GPL does not prevent closed versions because of Tivoization, and SaaS.

For instance, Facebook is closed, in spite of running on a mountain of GPLed stuff.

A locked device may prevent the user from running a kernel image that is not signed with a certain private key, even though the vendor of the device complies with the GPL and provides the matching kernel sources and the correct toolchain to reproduce the build without a signature.

I would almost go as far as to say that, in this day and age, someone ripping off free source code in order to create a nice, local-only application, is practically a hero. :)

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The best licenses are BSD and MIT and others of that sort; they have no naive pretense of not helping corporations: everyone can do almost whatever they want, be they a large business or an individual. These licenses also don't encourage unlevel playing fields where the copyright proprietor enjoys dominance in the ecosystem. The project owner ALWAYS has dominance in the ecosystem. At least with GPL the owner is prot…

The GPL does not prevent closed versions because of Tivoization, and SaaS. For instance, Facebook is closed, in spite of running on a mountain of GPLed stuff. A locked device may prevent the user from running a kernel image that is not signed with a certain private key, even though the vendor of the device complies with the GPL and provides the matching kernel sources and the correct toolchain to reproduce the build…

This is why we have AGPL and GPLv3. You can TiVoize the kernel, but you have to provide the user land, at minimum.

In a MIT only world, you would have no source of anything. So not only you can’t build a signature-free version of the kernel for educational purposes, you can’t even have it.

This is a corporation paradise.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GPL does not prevent closed versions because of Tivoization, and SaaS. For instance, Facebook is closed, in spite of running on a mountain of GPLed stuff. A locked device may prevent the user from running a kernel image that is not signed with a certain private key, even though the vendor of the device complies with the GPL and provides the matching kernel sources and the correct toolchain to reproduce the build…

This is why we have AGPL and GPLv3. You can TiVoize the kernel, but you have to provide the user land, at minimum. In a MIT only world, you would have no source of anything. So not only you can’t build a signature-free version of the kernel for educational purposes, you can’t even have it. This is a corporation paradise.

Unfortunately, AGPL is a non-free license, which dictates how one may run the program when not redistributing any of its code. It's a clumsy attempt to attack a certain problem in the social computing sphere using software licensing. (You know the adage about every problem looking like a nail when the only tool you have is a hammer.)

Open source licenses are characterized by the fact that you don't have to read them, let alone agree with them, merely in order to obtain the software and use it. These licenses "kick in" when you redistribute.

The AGPL can only be litigated as a closed license; i.e. the argument being that if the defendant does not use the program in accordance with the license, their copy is infringing, the same like a cracked version of Photoshop. Whether you are allowed to have a copy or not depends on how you are using it.

A successful AGPL litigation would mainly succeed in proving to the world that the license is nonfree, which would be evident from the arguments that would necessarily have to be used, and the reasoning necessarily expressed in the verdict.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having ripgrep installed by default doesn't preclude grep also being installed.

Indeed. So why it should it come by default?

Have you used ripgrep? It's so much nicer for day to day usage! That's why it should come by default. Seriously, try it out, I'm sure you'll love it!

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's no 4D chess, and if the license is not that important, why not relicense uutils to GPLv3 then?

I don't mind GPL, but if I were to start a new project it would be MIT licensed. There is no hidden agenda in my decision to do that and it's certainly not some grand scheme by my employer to make me do that. I simply find gpl less free because it has obligations attached to it. I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. In fact I think this may very well be the way the majority of folks feel at this point.

Corporations have been attacking the GPL for decades. Your employer would likely not allow you to license something with the GPL even if you wanted to. Many employer's employee handbook comes with specific clauses against not using, let alone contributing to, GPL software. So your take on the corporate part is rather disingenuous and ignores much of recent history.

Yes, some people do believe liberal licenses are free-er. Corporations certainly like the freedom to not contribute back.

Re: Rewriting essential Linux packages in Rust

#120

> "I'm going to state the obvious, that Rust is very good for security, for parallelism, for performance". That's not obvious. > He is "almost certain" that code he writes in Rust is going to work well on everything from Android to Windows. I'd think the problem with security in code is cocky developers who believe that some part of the environment is magical and can save them from themselves. > Ledru cited laziness…

This Ledru comes across as a total noob indeed.

> He is thinking about "what we are going to leave to the next generation".

A history lesson in software licensing, maybe? Certainly not one he bothered to learn himself, lol.

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