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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#51

Post by jeroenhd »

colordrops wrote: post #37
sashank_1509 wrote: post #10

I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot

Do gas cars get advertised mileage on steep hills? I don't believe so.

Electric cars being much, much heavier than petrol cars do have a disadvantage going uphill.

I'd still reckon that range estimates should ignore these extreme edge cases, though.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#52

Post by 486sx33 »

darth_avocado wrote: post #6

Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)

No different than fuel range numbers (fuel tank capacity x mpg) for ICE vehicles. They are under perfect conditions in a lab with no accessories. It might not be realistic but it’s absolutely the best way to compare it to other vehicles.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#54

Post by toast0 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #42
ajross wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the sacrifice? Just charge it to 100% before you leave for a 200+ mile trip, there's even a setting in your app to make that happen automatically (it'll start charging at e.g. 2am or whatever is needed for your departure time). Did you gas up your car every time you drove back from work? No, right? So why complain that the car doesn't sit at 100% all the time in your garage? Seems like a silly complaint to me…

The sacrifice is that you can't use 40% of what's supposedly the range. > Did you gas up your car every time you drove back from work? No, right? Right, you gas up your car when it needs more gas. You can't do that with an electric car for two reasons: (1) you need to fuel the car well in advance of trying to use it, because fueling is extremely slow; (2) you can't go low on fuel without damaging the car. The only lo…

You shouldn't normally run a fuel powered car all the way to empty either. Fuel pumps tend to be cooled by the fuel they're pumping, running low means you might be pumping air in addition to fuel and air cooling isn't as effective as liquid cooling, so you will overheat your fuel pump (may not be a big deal depending on how long you can go with the tank critically empty). Fuel tanks also accumulate crud which is more likely to make it out of the tank when you run it low. And your fuel tank may be more likely to corrode when it has more air in it, which naturally happens when it has less fuel, so you should keep it mostly full when possible.

That said, it's usually not a big deal until your vehicle and its fuel tank has sat on the side of the road unused for a few years, and your fuel has degraded in place.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#55

Post by timewizard »

pshirshov wrote: post #47
londons_explore wrote: post #5

The article really focusses on range loss when cold, but as far as I can see that isn't really true. The reality is there is lots of range loss when using the cabin heater, which obviously one is most likely to do when cold. All modern Tesla's use heat pumps for cabin heating, which ~halves the range loss, but it's still substantial.

I'm wondering, why the battery coolers are so sophisticated but never heat the cabin.

You need to heat the battery when it's cold too.

Tesla's used to, not sure if they still do, had a four way valve that could be used to route coolant around the system in the right direction. High wear and failure rate part.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#57

Post by darth_avocado »

delichon wrote: post #27
darth_avocado wrote: post #6

Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)

Subtracting the politics but including the actual range, do you regret the purchase?

No. They are still a pleasure to drive. It’s a great commuter car and depending on the electricity rates and whether you have solar panels, slightly more economical than ICE cars. And I’ve had lower maintenance costs. But that’s about it. Like all cars they have their own problems.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#58

Post by joshribakoff »

Dont cancel the appointment, insist they repair it, do 3-4 attempts even if they close it as “expected characteristic” or “education”, then request a lemon law buy back for failure to honor the warranty. Check your purchase agreement for where to send the lemon law request. Demand incident compensation during the buyback if they failed to provide loaners.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#59

Post by corey_moncure »

This nonsense again.

My 2020 S has a lifetime Wh/Mi of ~260. When the battery was new it was 96 kWh, that's 369 miles. And I floor that sucker all the time for fun, blast the stereo, and run the A/C constantly. Luggage rack on the roof.

At the end of the day, I've never had a real problem with the range. I definitely don't feel lied to. I wouldn't trade it for any other car in the world.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#60

Post by slg »

darth_avocado wrote: post #6

Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)

> in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain.

Another aspect of this debate from my own experience, Tesla's range estimates from the navigation system are much more accurate (which should be obvious because otherwise people would constantly get stranded when taking a road trip). Tesla would probably argue that is because all those factors you listed that impact range stop being assumptions when a defined time and route are known. But it is still no excuse for assuming the absolute best case scenario when defining the range used in marketing or displayed on the equivalent of the car's fuel gauge. If anything, the accuracy of those navigation estimates makes the other inaccuracies seem even more nefarious.

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