Discussed at the time:
Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36891642 - July 2023 (746 comments)
Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
21–30 of 287 posts
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#22I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot
I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max.
The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave it parked in front of my house for an hour or two. I have photos too; if you reach out to Tesla, they curtly tell me the battery is fine.
A vague "you need to keep your car plugged in" is frankly insane, what if I went on a 100km trip, left my car outside for an hour or two, and came back without enough range to go home? I've heard people say to disable the app on my phone, but that frankly seems like a Tesla problem, not a "me" problem.
I still enjoy driving the car. I just wouldn't trust it for long range driving. I probably will buy Hyundai or BYD (if Canada lets them in) next time.
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#23The article really focusses on range loss when cold, but as far as I can see that isn't really true. The reality is there is lots of range loss when using the cabin heater, which obviously one is most likely to do when cold. All modern Tesla's use heat pumps for cabin heating, which ~halves the range loss, but it's still substantial.
Does the heater really use all that much energy? A home space heater is something on the order of 1 kW, which is a fraction of a percent of what is needed to move the car.
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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#24Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)
I think that's pretty fair on the side of the EPA, it's good for drivers to keep the estimate conservative. Imagine if the difference between "ideal" driving and "everyday" driving was like half. Someone who plans a road trip with the advertised range in mind is probably gonna have a bad day.
And because it's bad for batteries to be fully charged/discharged they should probably take that into consideration as well since "you could go further if you damage your car" isn't exactly a normal driving scenario.
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#25Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)
How can Tesla advertise a “more accurate” number if they are required by regulation to use EPA estimate?
EPA range estimates being inaccurate is a real problem. They do not, and are not designed to, give actual expected range. It’s meant to be an “average” of “mixed” driving.
Take latest Model Y as example. If you compare EPA range vs WLTP (commonly used in EU)
327mi EPA est. (526km) US version (long range) / 586km WLTP est. (364mi) EU version (long range)
The WLTP is “average” as well, so which of these is more accurate?
This problem is not unique to Teslas, and actually not unique to EVs either. It’s just more noticeable, as ICE vehicles usually advertise MPG and tank size, not total range. So EVs suffer from their own advertisement highlighting numbers that will never be accurate.
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#26I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot
Getting only 30% of the advertised range would be very unlikely unless you always drive uphill and in the cold. I've had a Model 3 and a Model Y, and would get at least 80-85% of the advertised range in average California weather.
I have 2014 Tesla S and 80-85% is just about right
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#27Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain. These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah… (I own a Tesla)
Subtracting the politics but including the actual range, do you regret the purchase?
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#28I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot
I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave…
Idle draw is a pretty common complaint for Teslas.
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#29The article really focusses on range loss when cold, but as far as I can see that isn't really true. The reality is there is lots of range loss when using the cabin heater, which obviously one is most likely to do when cold. All modern Tesla's use heat pumps for cabin heating, which ~halves the range loss, but it's still substantial.
Does the heater really use all that much energy? A home space heater is something on the order of 1 kW, which is a fraction of a percent of what is needed to move the car.
I don't own a Tesla but driving most any speed in winter at near snow temperatures is going to be hard to work against!
It's not the same as an immobile insulated house.
Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)
#30I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot
what's the mileage like when you take into account the downhill return trip? Unless your commute is uphill both ways through the snow :)
There might not actually be a downhill return trip if the commute involves going over a bunch of hills as is common in a pretty well known city that both has a lot of teslas and fits the parent's description.