Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Layoffs Don't Work

thehustle.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 801 posts

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#421

Post by theptip »

deviantbit wrote: post #334

This is a terrible opinion piece. Layoffs do work. Cutting hours does not work. I am always amazed how few people understand how a business operates. They think its a community organized event where there is unlimited revenue. There are a few basic accounting principles employees need to understand. It all revolves around Assets = Liabilities + Owner’s Equity. If you think otherwise, take a "Cost Accounting" course.…

Unsurprisingly, both the OP and this are oversimplified statements.

The more nuanced point is to note that simply reducing the world to accounting equations omits all of the human detail. Morale is a meaningful thing, or if you prefer, knowledge, expertise, Metis; these are damaged in layoffs, especially repeated rounds. And furthermore, the recent tech layoffs were not generally about fixing unsustainable businesses, they were about juicing profit margins for already profitable ones.

On the other hand, of course the OP title is wrong and layoffs can work. There are many examples even within tech where cutting deep is the only way of surviving.

Complex systems are complex.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#422

Post by al_borland »

nine_k wrote: post #259
andrewlgood wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than the manager who has spent years developing an employee - making sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hiring the right people to complement the team, fighting for bonuses and pay raises - only to have them quit to join the next company for a 10% raise. It is difficult to build a long-term culture when society seems to expect job hopping to rapidly advance…

I've never seen people leaving great jobs for a 10% raise. It's always something else: a much bigger benefit, or a significant downside of the current job, which are not widely publicized. Instead, I've seen people going to a lower -paying position for a more interesting job, a chance to learn new hot thing hands-on, a different set of responsibilities, etc.

I worked with a guy who left for more money, found out the grass wasn’t greener, and came crawling back. Then did it again. For some reason they hired him back a second time. When he quit the 3rd time I think that was the final bridge burned. I asked him about it and he said money was his singular metric for choosing a job, he was always looking, and would never stop.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#423

Post by al_borland »

bbqfog wrote: post #292
andrewlgood wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than the manager who has spent years developing an employee - making sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hiring the right people to complement the team, fighting for bonuses and pay raises - only to have them quit to join the next company for a 10% raise. It is difficult to build a long-term culture when society seems to expect job hopping to rapidly advance…

An experienced manager would know that is how the game is played and act accordingly. Don't get emotionally attached to any work relationships. It's transactional, keep that in mind.

This mentality is why people don’t get promoted internally, which leads to the job hoping in the first place.

Fix this and a lot of the job hoping problem goes away.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#424

Post by bloomingkales »

yodsanklai wrote: post #384
filoleg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

Sure, maybe that's how people in their 30s living in NYC or bay area feel about layoffs. But when you're older, have a family, and live in an area with a less dynamic job market, you may see things differently.

Why does it have to be an age thing? Some men and women are players and the game is the game to them. Those who are naturally monogamous would be stressed in a game like that. Constantly uprooting is a stressful lifestyle and can truly be torture (as evidenced by constant anxiety, no way to be). I can promise you people who are job hopping are hopping around other things in life (friends, family, relationships, projects, interests, roles, identities). It's a whole way of being.

Edit: This is not a judgement, but if you felt like it was, I very much want to hear about it.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#425

Post by nthingtohide »

callc wrote: post #179
nthingtohide wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we have a different kind of stock market which forces participants to consider long term outcomes more? E.g. no HFT firm should be able to make a profit from such a stock market. Selling stocks earlier and often should result in a penalty or percentage being taken away as a fee. As a retail investor I would love to use invest and forget strategy based on trends observed in such a stock market.

Consider no stock market. Just keep the company private. Honest question, why do so many companies strive to go public?

There are other places where people can gamble

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#426

Post by culi »

deviantbit wrote: post #334

This is a terrible opinion piece. Layoffs do work. Cutting hours does not work. I am always amazed how few people understand how a business operates. They think its a community organized event where there is unlimited revenue. There are a few basic accounting principles employees need to understand. It all revolves around Assets = Liabilities + Owner’s Equity. If you think otherwise, take a "Cost Accounting" course.…

The article cited actual statistics and data comparing companies that enacted layoffs vs those that didn't. It showed very clear evidence, even within the same industry, that those that enacted layoffs fared MUCH worse

Also many of these layoffs are NOT coming when companies are "bleeding revenue". E.g. Meta and Twitter enacted massive layoffs after posting their most profitable quarters yet

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#427

Post by whstl »

deviantbit wrote: post #376
yodsanklai wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a company is bleeding revenue Not what happened with some of the recent layoffs. Some big tech companies generate huge revenues, laid off 5-10% of people (sometimes with false pretext of performance), and do keep hiring at the same time or soon after. This happens not to reduce cost but to stress out remaining employees.

[flagged]

> Many companies rotate the bottom N percent to dump the bad performers

I have never seen this actually happen in practice.

It's always specific teams and projects that get fired because some C-Level fucked up and pushed for some ego project, or over-hired and placed those poor souls in useless projects.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#428

Post by notadoomer236 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #370
deviantbit wrote: post #334

This is a terrible opinion piece. Layoffs do work. Cutting hours does not work. I am always amazed how few people understand how a business operates. They think its a community organized event where there is unlimited revenue. There are a few basic accounting principles employees need to understand. It all revolves around Assets = Liabilities + Owner’s Equity. If you think otherwise, take a "Cost Accounting" course.…

> If a company is bleeding revenue Not what happened with some of the recent layoffs. Some big tech companies generate huge revenues, laid off 5-10% of people (sometimes with false pretext of performance), and do keep hiring at the same time or soon after. This happens not to reduce cost but to stress out remaining employees.

They have way, way more employees than they need.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#429

Post by mehphp »

tayo42 wrote: post #201
filoleg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

I don't get how people get jobs so easily. It took me like 8 months and it was extremely stressful.

Interviewing is a skill of its own. Some people are really good at it.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#430

Post by heeen2 »

throwaway3572 wrote: post #390
ryandrake wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point! I never got the chance to vote on whether or not shareholders should get all the votes.

Why should you get a vote? You don’t get a vote on what groceries I buy. What entitles you to a vote on this purchase decision? (In this case “all the votes” means when making decisions on actions a particular corporation is considering, not any vote on anything)

Lots of places take vote on what you can buy, eg weed, alcohol, which additives are allowed and so on
Post reply on HN