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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#701

Post by lif »

hkyu12 wrote: post #463

So much warmongering going on here. The site where majority used to call to end US as world police, stop interfering and instigating overthrowing government now wants the opposite. This site is surely astroturfed or suddenly people have turned violent.

I can assure you that there would never be any chance of paid shill brigades shouting down opposing viewpoints on HackerNews. Instead, as I have been informed many times, posts critical of Trump are being flagged. The posts that make it through then naturally are flooded with independent thinkers who just happen to all be in agreement. I mean, how could you not agree with them, right?

Those who disagree about this particular topic obviously deserve whatever they get here. That's why ad hominem rules do not apply to them, and there is no need to be civil when replying to Russian trolls such as them!!

If astroturfing were happening, it would show up as most anyone critical of the astroturf comments being downvoted and/or flagged into grey oblivion, while the astroturf brigade would present as an unusually large number of comments that all agree with each other.

Anyway, I have been keeping track for a small study I a doing on information warfare, and look forward to presenting my research on this. Am still gathering screenshots and other data. So far, I am in awe at the deep thinking and high level of civil discourse on display here. I really like that folks here show respect even to those who disagree.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#702

Post by rapjr9 »

rvnx wrote: post #585
addicted wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…

Even further, the US position is getting tougher. Now there are new ideas getting pushed (through influencers like Musk): that Ukraine "should be sanctioned", that Ukraine "should give their minerals to the US", that Ukraine "should give up their lands", that Zelensky "should resign" and finally that "US should leave NATO". With such allies, you don't really need enemies.

Leaving NATO is not a one way street. If the US leaves NATO, then the NATO countries can also stop supporting the US. How many components of US weapon systems are made in the EU?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#703

Post by esalman »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #590
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

What's truly eroding trust is the voting system. A system that places so much power in a single individual with complete immunity exposes its vulnerabilities-especially in a time when people can be manipulated so effectively. To be honest, I see the lack of justice as the biggest problem. If the highest courts in the U.S. are essentially political institutions, shaped by those in power rather than acting as neutral a…

Lack of trust on voting system has been brewing for a while. The Democratic establishment has successfully and unsuccessfully tried to shoehorn choice candidates last few election cycles. While republican candidates have been questionable, there's no denying that they went with whoever the voters wanted.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#704

Post by devsda »

kragen wrote: post #380
devsda wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Trump is an alien impersonator trying to destroy humanity from within to make it easier for the aliens to colonize earth" That is also a probable explanation for what's happening, if you believe in UFOs and aliens. Sorry, I mean no disrespect. As a non-american and non-westerner, it's absolutely wild to see what people are willing to believe when it comes to Trump. Surely, there's a more rational and simple explanat…

Perhaps you have thought of one? If so, the rest of us are dying to hear it.

It doesn't matter what I think or believe. What matters and what we know is that nearly half of America's electorate does not think that these allegations have any merits. The rest are free to believe or speculate whatever they want to.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#705

Post by xdennis »

knubie wrote: post #364
sorokod wrote: post #158

The Danish air force is likely experiencing a buyers remorse about their batch of F35s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Danish_Air_Force

Yes I'm sure the Danes are wishing they had purchased their fifth generation fighters from China or Russia instead.

That money could have been used on drones or other weapons rather than buying expensive paper weights.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#706

Post by bbqfog »

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

It’s in my personal interest to not spread war and weapons throughout the world. We should cut off all weapons exports.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#707

Post by jpadkins »

bigyabai wrote: post #681
jpadkins wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> What alliance did the US sign with Ukraine? Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons > The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine. Which was negotiated as part of a pa…

Thank you. That memo is not a treaty, ratified by our Senate. Second, Russia clearly broke the agreement. Third it only states that the US is obligated to provide assistance if a threat or act of aggression where nuclear weapons are used. As long as Russia does not use nuclear weapons (or threatens them!), we have no obligation in this agreement.

Also it does not specify assistance. Clearly the US has already assisted Ukraine in defending from the invasion from Russia. And clearly the US people are tired of assisting them. We have no alliance with Ukraine.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#708

Post by kragen »

Chance-Device wrote: post #432
kragen wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have reasoning to support this improbable conjunction, or are you just seeking to bet money?

The strategic interests of the US stay the same. All of this is posturing which will only improve the alliance which the US leads . Carrot or stick, this president or that president, certain things don’t change. All that changes is the implementation.

John Bolton, Vladimir Putin, Emmanuel Macron, Friedrich Merz, Wesley Clark, and Justin Trudeau seem to be unanimous in their assessment that the things you are saying "don't change" just changed. Of course they could be wrong, or lying, but they certainly aren't acting in concert.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#710

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

gip wrote: post #599
addicted wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…

Totally agree that Trump is trading long-term dominance for short-term gains. I think that in a few months, we will see the U.S. economy doing very well and somehow rebuilding its industrial base. In the long term, U.S. influence and wealth will make up a much smaller share of the world’s wealth than it does today.

> Totally agree that Trump is trading long-term dominance for short-term gains.

I'd say the other way round - rebuilding everything that was outsourced will take a long time, so hard times are ahead. In the long term, I hope the USA will be less dependent on China.

But at the same time the way it was done completely destroyed the credibility of the USA as a reliable partner, both in trade as well as military relations. Countries will organize new treaties, and the USA will be a powerful player but with far less influence than before.

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