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Layoffs Don't Work

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Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#241

Post by oytis »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

There is attrition and there are layoffs. With attrition someone leaves every year or so, you part on good terms, and the company hires a replacement on a similar level and location.

Layoffs means reducing headcount, your team ends up weaker than it was, and everyone is left wondering if they are next.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#242

Post by dehrmann »

bdangubic wrote: post #103
alphazard wrote: post #98

There is a theory about large complex systems which seems to be true in biology and maybe applies here. Intentional downsizing during times of stress works when it preferentially targets defective or dysfunctional components of the larger system. The system improves because the worst parts were removed. Layoffs don't help companies unless they can reliably remove the worst parts. At most large public companies, the c…

twitter is just about the worst example you could have used - by wide margin…

It depends if you mean keeping Twitter the service operational or Twitter the product relevant.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#243

Post by pjmlp »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

Depends on the country, in many European countries job hopping is not well seen regardless of the industry.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#244

Post by mistercheph »

This whole article is selection bias:

> There are findings that suggest layoffs lead to both short-term and long term issues, including: > - A 2x as likely chance of bankruptcy compared to companies that haven’t done layoffs.

Obviously! Because a huge number of the companies undergoing layoffs are about to go under and are using layoffs as a last ditch survival effort.

The author may be right, but every fact and figure presented in this article fails to distinguish between healthy companies in healthy industries using layoffs as a lever to increase stock prices, and layoffs happening in industries/companies that are collapsing.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#245

Post by nquicksherlock »

filoleg wrote: post #160
Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

I don't think that this narrative works in the current job environment. But nice try.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#246

Post by lr4444lr »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

I think your idea is a good faith argument, but it's a fallacy: high turnover on a job because of stiff competition for labor is not a "tech culture" issue, and it's not at all the same impact on a person as changing due to a layoff.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#247

Post by nthingtohide »

gruez wrote: post #149
nthingtohide wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these HFT stuff reminds me of chinese event where people send each other gift money as a good will gesture. Revenue is high but no meaningful transaction has happened. The money is just being exchanged between the same top HFT firms. And the best of our minds are fighting it out in the arena of algorithms rather than creating real world value.

>Revenue is high but no meaningful transaction has happened. The money is just being exchanged between the same top HFT firms. And the best of our minds are fighting it out in the arena of algorithms rather than creating real world value. Liquidity is "real world value". Being able to buy/sell a stock instantly without a massive premium/discount makes stock ownership for the average person possible. Contrast this to…

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/research-publications/resbul...

Conclusions and policy implications

To return to our initial question: does stock market liquidity deteriorate when HFTs compete? The results suggest that competition among HFTs increases speculative high-frequency trades, which could lead to a deterioration in market liquidity.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#248

Post by dehrmann »

altcognito wrote: post #81
mattmaroon wrote: post #59

"After the early-2000s dotcom bust, Bain researchers found that stock prices for S&P 500 companies that had no layoffs or laid off less than 3% of their workforce increased an average of 9% in the next year." Do non-science journalists just not know about correlation vs causation? Does it really not occur to them that maybe the companies that didn't do layoffs were healthier and that's why they overperformed? Wouldn'…

How would you correct for it? As someone who works with ten year olds, they would ask you what causation and correlation is.

One big problem is layoffs cluster around events like the dot com bubble, the financial crisis, or covid, so there are weird things happening. You might be able to look at companies' quarterly profits to identify healthy companies that remained healthy, but still did layoffs.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#249

Post by youcanalwaysgo »

screye wrote: post #207
filoleg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

Has to do with H1b visas. Post layoff, a person on H1B has 2 months to sign a new job offer or they must leave the country. Majority of Indian and Chinese H1bs do not have green cards, and are the main group that suffers. Some of these folks are well into their 30s, with kids and houses in the US.

[flagged]

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#250

Post by dustingetz »

jajko wrote: post #24
markus_zhang wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The twist is that when you layoff the 80% who supposedly only did the 20% part, you pretty much still have to hire the same amount of people to do that 20%.

But with lower rates, and with abysmal rampup period (or even afterwards). Don't blame managers, they just follow money, why else would they work those crappy jobs. Blame idiots who think short term bonuses should be massive instead of some long term performance and investment of oneself in company's success.

Blame the board, full stop. "Follow the money", there is really no other possible answer. Some set of people are responsible and to determine who that is, you read the corporate ledger, you read the financing contracts, you read the bylaws and governance structures, and what they literally state is that the board of directors are responsible for directing the company. The board is responsible. If you wish to be a director and responsible, then go incorporate, now you are the board! You are responsible! Good luck!
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