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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#531

Post by cardamomo »

sudoshred wrote: post #490
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

It is, in my own opinion, a common fallacy to attribute the outcome as a direct consequence of the associated ideology, when more often than not the ideology is at best a post-hoc rationalization. Material decisions and their natural consequences are far more consistently impactful than any abstract justification for them.

Oft quoted on HN in these contexts: "The purpose of a system is what it does." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#532

Post by peeters »

TrackerFF wrote: post #135

Who would have thought that the POTUS would be the person to kick foreign arms industries into sixth gear?

Sometimes I wonder if he's a secret genius that leverages his own stupidity.

E.g. he might be solely responsible for getting the Liberals reelected in Canada, something that a year ago you would have thought was absolutely impossible. But Trump is so deeply hated in Canada now that every time he mocks Trudeau it makes the Liberals more popular. Liberal support, which before Trump was elected was so low as to make a Conservative election win seem inevitable, has skyrocketed since Trump took office. It's now pretty much a dead heat, and that's before the Liberals have elected their new leader.

So I don't know, maybe he just really, really wanted the Liberals to get reelected and he pulled off the only way to make it happen. Maybe he felt sorry that Canadians seemed so internally divided, so he threatened to annex Canada to unite us.

Or maybe he's a moron that can't even understand cause and effect.

https://338canada.com/polls.htm

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#534

Post by tim333 »

pydry wrote: post #386
grej wrote: post #236

European defence companies are about to see the biggest demand boom of our lifetime.

The Soviet arms industry experienced a similar boom in the 1980s due to an eye wateringly expensive arms race with America. Spoiler alert: it did not end well for them. Putin is setting another trap.

I'm not sure how this plays out as Putin setting a trap? This is probably going to be a bit expensive for European taxpayers, myself included, but we'll get by.

Russia on the other hand may have issues similar to the 80s/90s if we get serious with sanctions on shipping oil.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#535

Post by bmitc »

samcheng wrote: post #234
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

The best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.

But that isn't what has happened or is happening.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#538

Post by [deleted] »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

[deleted]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#539

Post by the_gastropod »

lolinder wrote: post #258
samcheng wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.

No, that's not it. I'm writing this from rural America in deep Trump territory, and people here are already struggling and have been for years. From their perspective they've been left out of the benefits of the global economy—the big cities and the coasts might be better off, but the middle of the country wants to go back to when they had opportunities and jobs for working class Americans. They're almost certainly w…

> people who actually understand Trump voters and try to vocalize their needs and perspectives just silences the voices

We’ve been falling over ourselves trying to understand these poor misunderstood Trump voters for nearly 10 years now. We’ve all heard these rationalizations many times before.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#540

Post by rincebrain »

glitchc wrote: post #290
Waterluvian wrote: post #216

I think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up: This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.…

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. US prosperity is rooted in its overwhelming military might. People dare not take it on for fear of reprisal. Those who occasionally try are quickly reminded through reciprocal action. US companies benefit greatly from secure operations and relatively laissez-faire domestic economic policies to grow into world behemoths. Don't kid yourself for one second into thinking that your safety and…

It's both.

The stick being silent only works if people believe you won't randomly start swinging it if they cooperate, and people trusting you not to swing wouldn't matter if you didn't have a stick.

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