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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

351–360 of 1001 posts

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#351

Build trust for a hundred years. Then flush it down the drain in two months.

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This belief is flat out wrong and is completely oblivious to the current geopolitical landscape. US is likely to get sanctioned by its prior allies in the near future and you need to wake up.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#352

Who would have thought that the POTUS would be the person to kick foreign arms industries into sixth gear?

He has been pretty vocal about exactly that. He said multiple times that European countries must increase defense budgets significantly.

Yeah, but EU countries donated weapons like the F-16, which were bought from the US in the first place. So now we have to use another source for those weapon systems and the revenue/jobs won't end up in the US.

Is this really what the US wants?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#353

Build trust for a hundred years. Then flush it down the drain in two months.

That been said. Historically US got strong by screwing over its allies. For example to the UK during the second World War.

What specifically are you referring to during the WW2? I'm sure it wasn't always black and white, but I think in general the US and western Europe were fairly good allies.

Personally I think the reason the US got strong, especially economically, is because of stability, rule of law, global trade and economy of scale due to large enough population. Not because of specific incidents of screwing someone.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#354

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

> this is like Brexit but 1000x

This sums up what I've been thinking too - it looks like the USA is sick of being the center of the world and is stepping down from the position right now.

I guess this means it's China's moment. :/

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#355

I think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up: This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.…

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.

My mental model is that it will hurt the S&P500 but benefit the working class.

How do you see some sort of benefit for the working class? Has Trump, Musk, or literally anyone associated with this administration ever made any move towards that? Trump in particular is famous for not paying people.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#357
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"27 in total ordered; 17 delivered as of January 2025; 11 in Denmark and 6 in Luke Air Force Base for training purposes as of January 2025" Project is so far along that Denmark is probably stuck with them.

They can probably sell them to Russia or China a few years down the road at the current trajectory.

Russia wouldn't know what to do with them, given that they effectively do not develop weapon systems after the collapse of the Soviet Union. China probably has decent enough espionage they don't really need them, although it might make a nice political overture.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#358

When totalitarian governments all start applauding what you're doing, using what you're doing as a distraction from a bad domestic situation as well as a justification for their dictatorships, you should know that something is totally screwed up. Yes, I'm talking about the totalitarian governments of China and Russia.

you are talking about ( edit almost) a third of the entire human population, as if you know better. Reality says - random armchair Western Educated Individual Rich and Democratic does not rule the day for a third of humanity by claiming some political imperative. More reality - the Muslim world is organized and very wealthy in spots. By confrontational and arrogant (see above) posturing and actions by Westerns, it dr…

The combined population of China and Russia is less than a fifth of the world (15-16 bn vs 80+ bn). Edit: should be 1.5-1.6 bn vs 8 bn.

I'm only discussing Trump's behaviour and its effect on totalitarian governments, I don't have enough knowledge to discuss the rest of what you wrote.

I think the recent series of Trump's actions against Ukraine have failed to send a message to totalitarian governments that matches his own words. This has nothing to do with how much of the population Trump rules.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan is now going to be seriously worried.

If Taiwan didn’t give up on the US and start making alternative plans on Nov 7th, that was a huge mistake. The US has made it clear that not only is it abandoning traditional allies, it will likely side with any invading force that exercises the “might makes right” principle.

A couple of counterpoints:

1) Trump might be alienating his traditional allies and cosying up to Russia, but he still apparently sees China as a problem or adversary.

2) Thinking purely transactionally, the US is very dependent on Tiawan due to TSMC. Most of the US' largest tech companies are investing heavily in AI hardware (TSMC chips) and/or rely directly on TSMC for their own supply chain. I have no idea whether Trump et al see it this way, or this would be enough to trigger the US to protect Tiawan, but transactionally, it's immeasurably more valuable to the US than Ukraine.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#360
post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

"We Are Fighting Against a Dictator Backed by a Traitor" - https://youtu.be/j51HZncBvEI

https://www.independants-senat.fr/post/claude-malhuret-situa...

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