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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#201

Post by xg15 »

guerrilla wrote: post #159
throwaind29k wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is no one in Europe not skeptical of the increase in defense spending? Things have costs, that money is having to come from somewhere. Is increasing traditional military spending the way to go in the 21st century? If the decision is left to military leaders,they might spend massive amounts of money preparing to fight yesterday's war. If you set aside alarmist positions, it may very well possible that Russia has no in…

It sounds like you're not keeping up on things. We know where the money is coming from. It's headline news daily in the financial press. What are you talking about? And yes, of course we need to defend ourselves.

The money is coming from increased debt.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#202

Post by throwaind29k »

Eupolemos wrote: post #164
throwaind29k wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is no one in Europe not skeptical of the increase in defense spending? Things have costs, that money is having to come from somewhere. Is increasing traditional military spending the way to go in the 21st century? If the decision is left to military leaders,they might spend massive amounts of money preparing to fight yesterday's war. If you set aside alarmist positions, it may very well possible that Russia has no in…

We have opened for €800 billions in investments through the EU. So, no. Calling anything "alarmist positions" now is just uninformed; Putin has said Russia wants the USSR territory back, their entire industry is now turned to produce weapons, their schools are "Putin-Jugend", they are currently invested in the first "great war" since WW2. And the US isn't just getting out of Europe - they have gone full turncoat. Thi…

This conflict may be a disaster for Ukraine, but how is this conflict a disaster for Europe?

Is Europe going to ratchet military spending at Putins's bluff?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#203

Post by generic92034 »

jopsen wrote: post #102
dividedbyzero wrote: post #52

Today it's Ukraine and F35s, who and what will it be in a year? I suppose European governments are taking a long hard look at strategic dependencies on the US right now, like the whole economy running on top of Microsoft and Google and other US-made SaaS. If all of that went dark at once, I honestly don't know how some of the larger companies I know could keep operating. They all have fallbacks for critical infrastru…

In practice it goes both ways... Lots of critical things for the US is made exclusively in Europe. Lots of medicin that people rely on daily would be unavailable if EU/US trade broke down completely.

Adding to this:

About half of the US companies over a certain size run on ERP software from an European vendor. And it is not trivial at all to change that, even if they wanted to.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#204

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

tomohawk wrote: post #24
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

[flagged]

I think you need to reassess your instrumental subgoals, because this isn’t a game you can win by owning the libs: if Trump fucks the US hard enough, your life is still gonna suck even if everyone blames Biden and hates democrats.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#205

Post by epistasis »

wyldfire wrote: post #190
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

The agenda that Trump advanced during campaigns was not "cut ourselves off from the rest of the world". Do his supporters really want this? What's the rationale he advances for this stance and the tarrifs? What would a president who was beholden to Russians do once elected? I mean -- what's the point of provoking Canada, of all countries? Canada as the 51st US state would be the new most populous state and would caus…

> Do his supporters really want this?

After many long discussions, I can only conclude it less about the values of the supporters and more about their psychology.

His supporters want whatever he wants, as long as it means that the right people get bullied. There's not much deeper thought than that.

It's very sad to see people that I respected debase their own principles so that they can remain proud Trump supporters. Their identity appears tied to the decision, and I know only one person who had the principles to to respond to any of Trump's actions with "OK these people actually have no clue what they are doing." (Which was in response to their treatment of Zelensky in the Oval Office).

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#208

Post by StayTrue »

bborud wrote: post #15
eunos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially F-35 where lack of American support means total brick. Hey, at least Ukraine can use their S-300 systems and Sukhois against their maker.

This is top of mind for all European countries that bought the F-35. They are painfully aware of this. So is the US defense industry which will notice softening sales kicking in a few years down the line as European countries are less inclined to buy US arms. This was predictable though. The markets have already rewarded those who saw this coming.

Canada’s largest newspaper published an opinion piece [0] calling for the cancellation of F-35 purchases. The article calls out source code availability in its argument.

[0] https://archive.is/2LLkO

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