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My 16-month theanine self-experiment

dynomight.net

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Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#71

Post by cluckindan »

dylan604 wrote: post #67
pazimzadeh wrote: post #48

> I’ve long found that tea makes me much less nervous than coffee, even with equal caffeine. Many people have suggested theanine as the explanation, but I’m skeptical. Most tea only has ~5 mg of theanine per cup, while when people supplement, they take 100-400 mg. Apparently grassy shade-grown Japanese teas are particularly high in theanine. And I do find those teas particularly calming. But they still only manage ~2…

I would also look at other ingredients in teas as a knock on effect vs straight supplement extracts. Sometimes the extract as a supplement isn’t the same once separated from the rest of the plant it’s found.

How about other ingredients in coffee?

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#72

Post by kerkeslager »

It's a bit disappointing that Vitamin D was used as a control, since based on my research, Vitamin D does seem to have very significant effects on mood. Author says:

> Vitamin D might have some effects on mood, but no one seems to claim that they’re acute, that you’d feel them within an hour.

As far as I remember, this is correct, which is to say, I've never read anything that claimed the effects of vitamin D were acute. However, this seems like it still leaves a pretty big gap to me: you're taking a known mood-altering substance and basically hoping that the effects aren't acute because nobody has bothered to test whether they are or not.

That said, this is a minor complaint, and this test is far more scientific than the vast majority of self-experiments.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#73

Post by kerkeslager »

cluckindan wrote: post #71
dylan604 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also look at other ingredients in teas as a knock on effect vs straight supplement extracts. Sometimes the extract as a supplement isn’t the same once separated from the rest of the plant it’s found.

How about other ingredients in coffee?

That's certainly an interesting thing I wish we knew more about. My qualitative experience is that coffee gives me more anxiety than any other form of caffeine I've tried, including ones that don't contain L-theanine.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#74

Post by cubefox »

cluckindan wrote: post #70

”I’ve long found that tea makes me much less nervous than coffee, even with equal caffeine.” Well, of course you are less nervous when you avoid taking coffee: it contains a LOT of beta-carbolines which act as MAO-A inhibitors. MAO-A inhibition directly prevents adrenalines from being inactivated by oxidation.

Or maybe it doesn't actually make him less nervous, in which case the beta-carbolines are irrelevant.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#75

Post by npunt »

jaggederest wrote: post #46

This is actually a thing I wish existed, but I don't have time and energy to make it right now. I'd pay $25 a month or more. Basically it's an application that lets you do self-experiments like this, properly blinded and with good statistics. A challenge-dechallenge-rechallenge study is one of the ones I like, but if you want to do one you essentially have to design the study anew each time, and it would be convenien…

I've been thinking the same thing! The app should have protocol templates for whatever intervention I'm testing, what outcomes I should track, and what confounds might be. And if it isn't part of the templates, help me develop the protocol, including being able to set what level of confidence I want. It should tell me what actions I should take to improve confidence (e.g. bloodwork). It should hide the results from me until the overall intervention is complete.

All the other health apps and tracking systems I've seen are operating at one level of abstraction too low (just the data itself and its direct insights), or try to find patterns from p-hacking passive signals (it looks like when you work out you sleep better, did you know your HRV is 1.1 higher when you do [unrelated thing]). There's no buy-in or sense of direction in these products, no pushing me to do more to acquire data, no laser focus on a targeted test / intervention.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#76

Post by discodonkey »

For a community that prides itself on critical thinking, I'm always surprised to see HN lap this sort of pseudoscientific witch-doctor stuff up.

This poorly-controlled, N=1 experiment tells you nothing, not even about the author.

There's absolutely no reason to consider these novice self-experiments when professional scientific experiments are available (unless you're hunting for a specific result).

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#77

Post by adt »

fragmede wrote: post #49
jaggederest wrote: post #46

This is actually a thing I wish existed, but I don't have time and energy to make it right now. I'd pay $25 a month or more. Basically it's an application that lets you do self-experiments like this, properly blinded and with good statistics. A challenge-dechallenge-rechallenge study is one of the ones I like, but if you want to do one you essentially have to design the study anew each time, and it would be convenien…

you want a service to: mail out a 30-pack of daily pills, there's an app where you record your mood/whatever, and then at the end of it, reveal which days were VitD and which was collagen? how much would you pay for this?

Skip the app. Make the pills.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#78

Post by defen »

discodonkey wrote: post #76

For a community that prides itself on critical thinking, I'm always surprised to see HN lap this sort of pseudoscientific witch-doctor stuff up. This poorly-controlled, N=1 experiment tells you nothing, not even about the author. There's absolutely no reason to consider these novice self-experiments when professional scientific experiments are available (unless you're hunting for a specific result).

The author directly quoted the European Food Safety Authority, who found the same thing he did. There's a rich history of self-experimentation in medicine and nutrition, I don't think you need to be so negative.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#79

Post by kristiandupont »

cluckindan wrote: post #70

”I’ve long found that tea makes me much less nervous than coffee, even with equal caffeine.” Well, of course you are less nervous when you avoid taking coffee: it contains a LOT of beta-carbolines which act as MAO-A inhibitors. MAO-A inhibition directly prevents adrenalines from being inactivated by oxidation.

In spite of the confidence you're stating this with, it sounds like a serious over-simplification of a very complex dynamic.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#80

Post by aucisson_masque »

discodonkey wrote: post #76

For a community that prides itself on critical thinking, I'm always surprised to see HN lap this sort of pseudoscientific witch-doctor stuff up. This poorly-controlled, N=1 experiment tells you nothing, not even about the author. There's absolutely no reason to consider these novice self-experiments when professional scientific experiments are available (unless you're hunting for a specific result).

It's the contrary. Science, see European Food Safety Authority and examine.com, shows lots of data that it doesn't work.

Yet people have been saying all over the internet it's working.

The burden of the proof is on those who claim the opposite of the vast majority of scientist studies.

Beside, N=1 studies is still better than some nobody on the internet claiming it works when he did nothing to negate the placebo effect.

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