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Fasting & Programming

mahdiyusuf.com

81–90 of 180 posts

Re: Fasting & Programming

#81
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken if you think that hunting was the primary source of food in times before agriculture. For many tribes it was (and still is, in some parts of the world) a secondary "luxury" which augmented the gathered food. As you say, hunting can easily fail, or game can become rare because of environmental hiccups. This happens more often than you should think - there are times when deer can't be found for weeks.…

Yes, one can use intermittent fasting to lose weight, but weight-loss usually only kicks in after 2-3 weeks. Citation needed. I personally know people who've lost weight long term with quite brief periods of intermittent fasting.

I read that somewhere in this ebook on IF, don't recall on which page (great resource btw, one of the few user-friendly books I've seen yet): http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting

I can't say anything about the people you mentioned. I myself had absolutely no progress when IFing for some days, only dizziness and irritability.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#82
post #62
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was probably very common in the human experience prior to the development of agriculture. People didn't eat regular meals. Hunting opportunities would not have come along every day, and sometimes hunts would fail. I don't think humans would become too weak to throw spears because they didn't have their Cheerios in the morning. When I hear people who have skipped a meal complain "my blood sugar is low", I worry f…

Times have changed. Nowadays we try to minimize our fat stores because overeating is a bigger threat to us than starvation is. If you're eating balanced meals intended to keep you slim, missing one is a bigger deal than if you pig out on a deer you killed and then miss breakfast the next day.

99% of the population has more fat store than in the days when people hunted deer.

The problem is that people aren't used to accessing their fat stores for energy.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#84
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Fasting is good for your immune system as it stimulates phagocytosis. Here's a paper on Ramadan fasting: http://www.ayubmed.edu.pk/JAMC/PAST/21-4/Latifynia.pdf An amusing book on complete fasting by vintage american novelist Upton Sinclair here: http://archive.org/details/fastingcure00sinciala Personally, I fast regularly up to two weeks at a time, both for weight control and because I believe in it's overall long te…

Up to two weeks at a time of a total (water only) fast? I've done this before, but it was quite difficult to maintain in the midst of work pressures and I'm curious to know how you manage it.

I'm very interested in this. I've never tried fasting before -- and I'm 33 years old, which means I've had a lot of time to get used to eating a lot -- so I imagine that I would have a feeling of "starvation" that would be awfully distracting. Plus, I'm a bear when I'm too hungry and I wonder what I could do to avoid taking it out on the people who surround me (especially my 5 year-old kid).

Re: Fasting & Programming

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too weak to throw spears, maybe not. Too weak to churn out top quality code may be another matter, however.

You are severely underestimating the mental difficulty of spear hunting in relation to writing a couple of lines of code.

Really? I've spear hunted fish when I was a kid and shot targets with a bow (if I were a proto-human it could have been small animals instead) and both were pretty damn easy and not mentally taxing at all.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#86

Very interesting, my experience has been slightly different this year. Normally my brain is thinking 10 different things at one time. It is fairly difficult for me to focus (more so since I work at an office that has 5 TVs that I can see, and a couple of channels I can hear). The first few days of fasting, I was surprised how easily I was able to focus. Frankly I was far more productive than I normally am. Unfortunat…

> Normally my brain is thinking 10 different things at one time. It is fairly difficult for me to focus (more so since I work at an office that has 5 TVs that I can see, and a couple of channels I can hear). I think a part of the reason why programmers prefer working late hours (late as in after 12 in the night) is that the brain is sufficiently tired as to not be able to jump all over the place. You'd focus on one t…

Or you think you are focusing on code, and just are too tired to notice context-switches or general slowness.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#87

I am currently working in Saudi Arabia (here, fasting is a national rule , however I eat because I'm a Indian and non-Muslim) as a programmer, and I've noticed one funny thing - people just become nocturnal. They eat and work in the night and sleep during the day. This is simply the normal routine reversed. Fasting has minimal effects on them, its not fasting, just the time in which they eat is changed! They work sho…

Humans are funny creatures. To believe on the one hand a god laid down these rules, and then in the same thought think "Well I bet he didn't think of this loophole"

I remember having this same thought when I learned about the existence of "Islamic finance." Apparently, Islam has a strong doctrinal prohibition against charging interest, and there's an entire thriving sector of Islamic law and business dedicated to structuring transactions in ways that don't technically charge interest but still yield a return on principal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

This reminds me of a little kid beating up his classmates on the playground being told by the playground monitor to stop touching them, and then turning around going back to tormenting them by starting to punch them and stopping just short of making actual contact, and saying "neener neener, I'm not actually touching you." Except here, instead of a playground monitor, it's...an omnipotent creator deity.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#88
IANAN (I am not a nutritionist) but I strongly suspect that the physical and mental exhaustion is primarily related to dehydration (as Mahdi Yusuf himself indicates by bolding "drink"). Looking at some of the comments here, the main difference between those who describe positive experiences with fasting and what the author describes is that the former drink water throughout the day. In that light, let me quote from a very good article [1]:

A normal average human body is made of approximately 60% of water. Water is the natural transport fluid involved in all important communication networks of the body. Drinking a lot of water (medium to low mineralization) ensures that the organs responsible for filtering and cleansing have sufficient carrying capacity and can eliminate toxins and wastes. You can see the argument as just plain good sense that we need sufficient water for dilution of wastes. Chemists and physicists know water as a truly exceptional fluid on many accounts. It is not by chance that life emerged and organized itself with water. Water is the best solvent that can dissolve an astonishing number of solid substances. Dehydration is a dominant cause of tiredness, pain and chronic diseases. Drinking about two liters per day plays marvel to keep energy and remove fatigue. Indeed, unknown to or often forgotten by the public is the fact that many chronic diseases may be associated with an insufficient intake of water. Such a simple gesture as drinking water regularly during the day may go a long way towards avoiding fatigue and remaining healthy.

I emphasize drinking pure water and not sodas, cokes, processed juices, coffees and so on. Just plain water. The drinks that are processed by agro-business are in general provided with added sweeteners that are known to promote malignant cell growth [Servan-Schreiber, 2009]. In addition, drinking with sugar (glucose, saccharine) prevents the body from strengthening its metabolic pathway of storing fat in time of surplus and burning fat efficiently in case of need. By feeding our body continuously with sweet drinks and sugar, we saturate our blood with sugar and we weaken considerably the metabolic processes of storing and retrieving sugar, making us more vulnerable to hypoglycemia in the rare cases where external sugar intakes stop. The consequence is to easily feel weak and tired. In contrast, letting the body be just flushed by plain water for hours ensures the build up of its metabolic capacities to burn fat efficiently. This is like muscle build-up by training. Art de Vany [2010] develops convincing supportive arguments for this. He correctly argues that our body is basically inherited from our hunter-gatherer evolution and we are thus adapted to strive in a patchy and varying environment for which our metabolism has derived efficient solutions to the energy flow problem. This backfires with our modern caloric and sugar rich, but nutritionally depleted, foods that are available at little expenditure of energy [de Vany, 2010], in the form of chronic diseases, an on-going so-called epidemic of obesity and many other modern so-called developed country diseases [Campbell and Campbell, 2006].

For the determination of the amount of needed water, a rule of thumb is to keep urine transparent. Do you feel a bit tired? Drink water. The effect is almost instantaneous. I constantly keep one or two liters on my office desk and drink when I feel like it and outside meals. I always carry water with me on trips. A minor nuisance is to drink it all before going through airport security._

_Of upmost importance is to drink our water outside meals. Most people use breakfast, lunch and dinner times to fill their body with both the liquid and solid nutrients that their bodies require. This is logical since meals are the times when we re-fuel our body. However, this behavior constitutes a fundamental mistake. Ponder this question: what other mammals in the whole animal kingdom drink their water together with their solid meals? None! We are the only one among about 5500 known mammal species who do it. The convenience of tools and the development of technology have put bottles on our meal tables to consume at the same time we ingest solid food. This apparent gain of civilization collides against a healthy diet for at least three reasons:

(i) Drinking lubricates and help swallow insufficiently chewed morsels; but digestion in the stomach requires the comminution of our food into particles that should be as minute as possible in order to maximize surface over volume ratio and therefore facilitate the digestive chemistry performed by the gastric secretions. This is just plain and simple good sense chemistry. When digesting unbroken food morsels, the stomach and the whole digestive system has to secrete more, takes more time to process our food, all this cumulatively increasing tiredness and fatigue on the body over the long run. I therefore recommend chewing so that you “drink your food”. Similarly, water and liquids should stay a while in the mouth before swallowing to warm up and mix with saliva so that you “eat your drinks”. A difficult digestion starting in the mouth is probably significant contributor to the feeling of tiredness after a meal.

(ii) Starch and other vegetable substances start their digestion with the help of enzymes found in the saliva; lengthy chewing ensures optimal chemical reactions with these enzymes and saves energy for the rest of the process in the stomach and intestines.

(iii) Ingested fluids dilute the stomach secretions, thus hindering the digestion process. Again, plain and simple good sense chemistry.

The article was originally written by a true scientist for his Ph.D. students. I think the physical dangers of our work is quite similar in that programmers and phd candidates or scientists will tend to get absorbed in front of a screen, sit for too long at a stretch, forget about or get negligent about food and drink, etc etc. I recommend this article.

________________________

[1] D. Sornette. Optimization of brain and life performance: Striving for playing at the top for the long run. Schweizer Monat, pages 38–49, Dec 2011.

(I believe the article is available on Arxiv.)

Re: Fasting & Programming

#89
Here is my experience: I am in Egypt, and I decided to stop working at all in Ramdan's day.. I work only during night, because its very very hot here, which you start feel you need to drink by 11 am, and our stupid government keeps cut electricity during the day, so we can't even use air conditioning most of the time, because there is no electricity, and if you don't know, using air conditioning helps so much reduce the need of water.. which is the main problem in a very hot weather like in Egypt.

I spend all the day sleeping, and start working after Iftar.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#90
I fast everyday. By not worrying about food while I do web-development I've noticed not only am I less distracted and get more done, but I am also less tired because my body isn't diverting energy to digesting food. I'd get really sleepy after lunch usually.

I practice Intermittent Fasting. I typically fast for 16 hours and eat for 8. I've been doing it for about a year now and I love it.

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