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Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

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351–360 of 485 posts

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#351
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how can you attribute this decline to specific laws? Seems it could be a result of many things such as public education & cancer outcomes becoming obvious.

When people were told they could smoke from candy-flavored USB-charged devices they jumped back on the train. Education didn't do anything, and no facts are obvious in this new world.

its not directly education, but education influenced fashion. smoking became a blue collar habit in the west, and then no longer cool globally.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#352
post #190

> California’s AB-728 mandates age verification for anyone purchasing skin care products or cosmetics that contain certain chemicals like Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids. On the surface, this may seem harmless—who doesn't want to ensure that minors are safe from harmful chemicals? Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults? If skin cream products with Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy aci…

Probably for the same reason we allow adults to smoke and drink but not children.

Not really.

The reason "we", scratch that, the reason the state allows adults to drink and smoke is because adults have been known to fight back, sometimes quite effectively, when they feel like something is been "taken away" from them. The obvious example here is the rise of bootlegging during prohibition; all that did was empower the organized criminal class, rather than get the nation to realize the awesome benefits of being a sober working stiff. That's why contemporary Western states disincentivize harmful goods by taxation, and gradual, rather than total, prohibition.

Consuming liquor and tobacco are also traditional communal activities, dating from before the total enclosure of industrial civilization upon people's personal lives. Meaning, people would actually be inclined to fight for the right to carry on like they're used to. This is one of the greatest motivators ever; very much not the case with the more novel intoxicating substances, even where those might actually be less harmful than good old alcohol and nicotine.

I'm all for creating an environment that encourages people to make optimal choices about their own lives. Generally, we do not live in an environment that even makes that possible. Case in point, why would one be driven to apply the toxic skin creams in question, if they did not have toxic beauty standards imposed on them in the first place? How do "we protect the children" from those, when all over the world conformance with Adobe Photoshop's idea of the human form can directly determine the social market value of a human being?

The answer is, we have no idea - we're not even asking ourselves the questions that make sense, because "protecting the children" is a moral scam. A just society would protect the inexperienced and the powerless, regardless of age - and, conversely, acknowledge the personhood and autonomy of all citizens in accordance with their demonstrated degree of self-awareness, rather than determine their human rights by some involuntary biological marker. I don't know how that society would work in practice, I'm only here to remind you that instead we live in another kind of society - one that is based on the non-consensual extraction of human resources. Such a society has no incentive to "protect" most of anyone. All it needs is to raise obedient children into dependent adults. (It also needs a stable population of scapegoats - "juvenile delinquents" growing into "hardened criminals", who are to be blamed for all dysfunction.)

Minors are an oppressed minority. They are subjected to extensive brainwashing, and deprivations of liberty that society claims are "for their own good". These rather serve the preservation of power structures, which start with the oppressor's drive to forget their formerly oppressed status. Thus, the purpose of age verification can only ever be the violation of privacy and autonomy of all market participants; it will do absolutely nothing to prevent kids from emulating the harmful and unmoderated behaviors of the adults around them.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#353
post #339

We should recognize that this is a political issue and that a problem exists that needs a solution. One party to the debate claiming that the solution (age verification) to the problem (kids accessing adult content) is imperfect, is worthless. We know what the position of the EFF or FSF is on the matter, they prioritize online privacy over kid safety, got it. But if the message is going to be that the solution has a…

Online privacy is a key component of kid's safety on the internet.

It's also a huge risk.

The privacy of attackers is a risk to kid safety.

The privacy of messages sent is a risk to kid safety (law enforcement should be able to access them)

The privacy of chilren activity is a risk to their safety (Parents should be able to view what their children do.)

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#354
This wouldn't be a problem if the U.S. had decent privacy laws that were enforceable against both private companies and the government, as well as some form of actual government issued ID.

The German constitution actually provides for a "right to informational self-determination", i.e. any individual has the right to decide what happens with their personal information, including what websites they visit.

We also have a standard governmen-issued ID. In combination that makes it possible for private companies to offer web-based age verification, that check you ID-number against a government-provided service, verifying the age but not providing additional information. And because of the privacy laws, it would be a criminal offense to store the identity of the person being verified or for that information to be connected with the website you visit.

The website in turn gets a legal record that they verified the age of the person, but not necessarily the actual identity of the person.

Ideally, in the end each party only gets a piece of the total picture but by confirming to each other that the piece they have checks out, you can confirm your age to a porn site without any single party being able to piece the entire picture together.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#356
post #71

The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. (Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Arguments can be made for more controlled spaces but...) Have a website and want the chance for kids to see it? Advertise in the headers that it's moderated and intended to be a given rating. Various indexers can pick that up. Complaints can be forward to relevant…

Public spaces are most definitely not "Adults Only" by default. You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it, you have to show ID to get into a bar, you have to show ID to buy a pack of cigarettes, and in many states the cigarettes have to be in an opaque cabinet. You can't walk around naked. You can't be drunk in public. Now admittedly many of these things are unevenly enforced, but society absolutely…

I know it's not the point but fun fact we've had big billboards advertising a specific OnlyFans account in a few cities in Portugal, with matching picture (not full nudity).

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#357

The internet should be free, open and uncensored. Parents should then have the obligation of looking after their children. Yes, that means not buying a smartphone and give it to your 3 year old. I think, slowly, the world is starting to realize this.

>Yes, that means not buying a smartphone and give it to your 3 year old.

Agreed.

>I think, slowly, the world is starting to realize this.

Unlikely. You'd be surprised at the proportion of parents that want to outsource parenting to the govt.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#358
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you can't wear it on a shirt The widespread proliferation of attire bearing so-called "ahegao" faces demonstrates otherwise.

[flagged]

You're kidding, right? It's literally a pornography trope.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#359
post #126
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. This is the attitude that led us to this problem in the first place. >Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? They're at much higher risk of being arrested/abducted by the police than they are anything else. This is a uniquely North American neurosis; this happens every day in every other nation. They take the subway to work/school or walk, l…

The Karens seem to perish in the backcountry. I have seen multiple elementary age children operating dirt bikes and heavy construction equipment on desert dirt roads.

I used to take the ATV out as often as I could as a kid, riding for miles over some rather treacherous roads with 200ft drops on either side and no barriers. Times sure have changed.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#360
post #144
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. This is the attitude that led us to this problem in the first place. >Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? They're at much higher risk of being arrested/abducted by the police than they are anything else. This is a uniquely North American neurosis; this happens every day in every other nation. They take the subway to work/school or walk, l…

I don’t think it’s entirely a mentality issue. I think North America created an environment where you wouldn’t want your 8 year old to navigate New York City. I would let my kids wander Tokyo before I would let them wander Chicago. Japan would not tolerate people spitting at and harassing children where Chicago does indeed tolerate that. I’d say ask me how I know but you could probably guess.

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