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Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

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Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#81

Post by pjmlp »

fmxsh wrote: post #73
hidelooktropic wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Am I missing the point that this leans so far into being as capable as a GUI as it can, that we lose something from starting in the terminal in the first place?

I was exploring why Linux terminal environment is so powerful compared to Windows terminal. Windows is built at the kernel level to support graphics and GUI, while *nix systems are built with terminal at the core. Thus Windows historically has had way more powerful GUIs. They are two different domains of power. Each of them also trying to do what the other does better.

Every desktop OS has been like that, UNIX is the exception, as it was originally designed for a timesharing headless system.

And with exception of command.com, most have had good CLI shells, without having to pretend being a teletype, like UNIX ones.

Amiga DOS with REXX was great, Oberon REPL, Smalltalk Transcript, Interlisp-D REPL, Xerox Star Mesa XDE,....

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#82

Post by celsius1414 »

nine_k wrote: post #58
CaesarA wrote: post #21

I always wondered if it was possible to have a TUI-style window manager inside the terminal. This is a fantastic project, whoever made it did a great job.

My TUI desktop environment, complete with a tiling window manager, is called Emacs %) I suppose Vim can offer a comparable experience.

To paraphrase the old vim joke, emacs will be great once they add a text editor. ;)

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#83

Post by [deleted] »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #78
hnlmorg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A browser engine isn’t a prerequisite for something using a graphical framework nor running on a desktop environment

Ah I see what you mean. I mean it’s all pixels in the end right? and pixels are primitives for guis. So then the root primitive is in actuality the gui.

[deleted]

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#84

Post by igouy »

throwawayForMe2 wrote: post #77
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revenge of DESQview

I also remember the first version of Smalltalk from Digitalk that was character based and windowed. It was called Methods. I can’t seem to find any reference to it on the web now.

"Methods, our character-based Smalltalk, is now available for $79- It has all of the features of Smalltalk/V except graphics, rules, source-level debugger, and object-swapping. However, it supports color, includes the communication package, and does not require a mouse."

magazine page 97

https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1986-10/page/n108/...

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#85

Post by stuartjohnson12 »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #50
evanjrowley wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main link in the thread appears to have been taken over by a malicious entity.

dang replaced it with an archive link and pinned a comment at the top telling the story. What a G.

I've never seen a forum moderator of a place as full of anxious nerds as Hacker News steward a ship this well. May we all aspire to Dang's heights.

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#86

Post by xkriva11 »

throwawayForMe2 wrote: post #77
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revenge of DESQview

I also remember the first version of Smalltalk from Digitalk that was character based and windowed. It was called Methods. I can’t seem to find any reference to it on the web now.

It is downloadable on WinWorld.

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#87

Post by -__---____-ZXyw »

pjmlp wrote: post #81
fmxsh wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was exploring why Linux terminal environment is so powerful compared to Windows terminal. Windows is built at the kernel level to support graphics and GUI, while *nix systems are built with terminal at the core. Thus Windows historically has had way more powerful GUIs. They are two different domains of power. Each of them also trying to do what the other does better.

Every desktop OS has been like that, UNIX is the exception, as it was originally designed for a timesharing headless system. And with exception of command.com, most have had good CLI shells, without having to pretend being a teletype, like UNIX ones. Amiga DOS with REXX was great, Oberon REPL, Smalltalk Transcript, Interlisp-D REPL, Xerox Star Mesa XDE,....

Interesting perspective. I've poked at the medley interlisp revival project, as well as glamorous toolkit, and cuis, but hadn't heard about most of the things you mention here. Will be investigating.

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#88

Post by haolez »

fmxsh wrote: post #71

Looks very smooth! However, from my perspective, the extensive need to drag windows around and resize them is a habit of windows environment. So, perhaps, this is for the mouse what tmux and Neovim are for the keyboard. In tmux, the window layouts I need are fixed sets of 2x2 panes, with some predefined ways of resizing them and toggling full-screen. With effective tools like telescope and nvim, the need to line all…

I thought like you in the past. Today, for some reason, I value defaults and reducing my cognitive load so that I can think more and do less. Even Eclipse would work for me nowadays :P

Re: Vtm: Text-Based Desktop Environment

#89

Post by fmxsh »

haolez wrote: post #88
fmxsh wrote: post #71

Looks very smooth! However, from my perspective, the extensive need to drag windows around and resize them is a habit of windows environment. So, perhaps, this is for the mouse what tmux and Neovim are for the keyboard. In tmux, the window layouts I need are fixed sets of 2x2 panes, with some predefined ways of resizing them and toggling full-screen. With effective tools like telescope and nvim, the need to line all…

I thought like you in the past. Today, for some reason, I value defaults and reducing my cognitive load so that I can think more and do less. Even Eclipse would work for me nowadays :P

I remember Eclipse! That was something like 20 years ago I used it last time. Thanks for bringing back some memories.

Setting up an efficient terminal environment is overwhelming. I do it as a hobby and enjoy the tinkering. Thanks to GPT the process is quicker. But I spent a lot of time just setting up a basic environment.

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