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Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

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Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#191
post #172
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Or alternatively, someone else with homophobic feelings will use my comment to reflect and realize it's OK to acknowledge their feelings while acknowledging the rights and freedoms of others. I welcome gays the freedom to kiss in public, just as they must accept my freedom to discuss my feelings. It's a two sided coin, and I'm not sure it's a loaded coin as you imply.

[deleted]

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#192

> California’s AB-728 mandates age verification for anyone purchasing skin care products or cosmetics that contain certain chemicals like Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids. On the surface, this may seem harmless—who doesn't want to ensure that minors are safe from harmful chemicals? Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults? If skin cream products with Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy aci…

California does keep adults safe from chemicals already - there's special Prop 65 labels you have to put on things in California if they contain chemicals.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#193
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognizing you have feelings isn't wrong. It's how you learn to control your actions and reason your response.

> Recognizing you have feelings isn't wrong. It's how you learn to control your actions If you’re afraid of the monster under your bed, the solution isn’t to clench you teeth—it’s to learn there’s no monster. Recognising the bias is good. We all have subconscious biases based on fear and disgust. But the solution is to learn more about the thing so it stops triggering a reptilian response.

Yes I agree 100%, although I admit the reptilian response might never fully attenuate.

Which leads me to, is public nudity/display of sex something we feel is wrong based on fear or disgust? Or because there is a scientific basis of degraded life outcomes? There can be health hazards in say most indoor spaces but for say printed material those biohazard don't exist. I'm seeking to find if I'm being a reptile here.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#194
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. This is exactly the opposite of the way public spaces actually work, and the way that public spaces actually work is the very justification for laws like this in the first place! You've just taken their exact rationale and imagined a world that would lead that metaphor to the opposite conclusion. In most of the real-life US, yo…

[flagged]

There are entire genres of research devoted to this.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#195

> California’s AB-728 mandates age verification for anyone purchasing skin care products or cosmetics that contain certain chemicals like Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids. On the surface, this may seem harmless—who doesn't want to ensure that minors are safe from harmful chemicals? Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults? If skin cream products with Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy aci…

California does keep adults safe from chemicals already - there's special Prop 65 labels you have to put on things in California if they contain chemicals.

Quick correction: everything contains chemicals.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#196
post #71

The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. (Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Arguments can be made for more controlled spaces but...) Have a website and want the chance for kids to see it? Advertise in the headers that it's moderated and intended to be a given rating. Various indexers can pick that up. Complaints can be forward to relevant…

Public spaces are most definitely not "Adults Only" by default. You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it, you have to show ID to get into a bar, you have to show ID to buy a pack of cigarettes, and in many states the cigarettes have to be in an opaque cabinet. You can't walk around naked. You can't be drunk in public. Now admittedly many of these things are unevenly enforced, but society absolutely…

Just like to offer a counter-perspective that most billboards are basically soft porn.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#197
post #85

Our state-issued eID cards are supposed to have a function that allows anonymous age verification to a trusted party. It should work like this: a requesting party sends a request signed by state-issued certificate to the ID card, the card verifies the request authenticity and responds with a signed confirmation of legal age and that signature then can be verified by the requester. No personal information is shared. W…

> No personal information is shared.

You'd know the state they're a legal resident of as they use state-specific keys used for signatures.

If the request allows checking arbitrary ages like Apple's, then you can get their age with a handful of requests. If one has to verify every visit, then you can get exact birthdate eventually.

If the one verifying has to pass data to the verifier site or the request to the verifier has any site/app/company-specific IDs (again, Apple), then you're leaking what you're visiting to the verifier.

And not to beat a dead horse, but as long as there are jurisdictions that don't require age verification in the world, children can easily use a free VPN or proxy to avoid checks altogether at which point, one has to ask, why do it at all?

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#198
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognizing you have feelings isn't wrong. It's how you learn to control your actions and reason your response.

> Recognizing you have feelings isn't wrong. It's how you learn to control your actions If you’re afraid of the monster under your bed, the solution isn’t to clench you teeth—it’s to learn there’s no monster. Recognising the bias is good. We all have subconscious biases based on fear and disgust. But the solution is to learn more about the thing so it stops triggering a reptilian response.

what do you think an unbiased heterosexual man should feel stumbling upon two men kissing in public?

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#199
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The children didn't seem worse off in the days where a 2nd grader could bike 5 miles to the grocery store to buy mom a pack of smokes and dad a six pack.

https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco... > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 73% among adults, from 42.6% in 1965 to 11.6% in 2022. > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 86% among youth, from 36.4% in 1997 to 3.8% in 2021. I'd say that's better off, not just in childhood but with long term effects.

And how can you attribute this decline to specific laws? Seems it could be a result of many things such as public education & cancer outcomes becoming obvious.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#200
post #3

age verification should be backed into the browser and not into websites. parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). governments should be free to go after any website not respecting that setting. but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic.

> but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic. Agree. > parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). How would this work? Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site on the internet just so a guardian can say "yes to drugs, no to porn, no to news, no to weapons..."? Or if that's…

> Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site

I would think adblock lists are a pretty good example of similar efforts (that is, people classifying large amounts of random sites), so I don't think that would be impossible.

Such things don't need to be perfect, either - just good enough.

(I don't agree with age verification efforts or even parental control software; just pointing out it's not impossible)

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