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Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

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Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#181

Post by autoexec »

> California’s AB-728 mandates age verification for anyone purchasing skin care products or cosmetics that contain certain chemicals like Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids. On the surface, this may seem harmless—who doesn't want to ensure that minors are safe from harmful chemicals?

Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults? If skin cream products with Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids are harmful, and I'm entirely unconvinced they are (at reasonable concentrations), lets just get rid of them.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#182

Post by riffic »

mjevans wrote: post #71

The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. (Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Arguments can be made for more controlled spaces but...) Have a website and want the chance for kids to see it? Advertise in the headers that it's moderated and intended to be a given rating. Various indexers can pick that up. Complaints can be forward to relevant…

It used to be quite normal for children to wander cities unattended.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#183

Post by JumpCrisscross »

autoexec wrote: post #181

> California’s AB-728 mandates age verification for anyone purchasing skin care products or cosmetics that contain certain chemicals like Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids. On the surface, this may seem harmless—who doesn't want to ensure that minors are safe from harmful chemicals? Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults? If skin cream products with Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy aci…

> Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults?

My understanding is they’re harmful if misused.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#184

Post by tzs »

For the issue of underage people purchasing products they should not be able to I wonder if this could be handled by requiring sellers to only accept payment by credit card, and to only complete the sale if the shipping address matches the credit card account address?

A child could borrow an adult's card, but then the items would be shipped to that adult's address which could make it hard for the child to get them without that adult noticing, and the purchase should show up on the next credit card statement further increasing the chances the adult will notice if the child is surreptitiously using the adult's credit card.

Maybe even require the listing on the credit card statement to have a prominent annotation stating that there were purchases of age restricted products that month.

This wouldn't stop all such purchases, but it should make it harder and it should make it easier for parents to find out that it is happening.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#185

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ty6853 wrote: post #163
slg wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Recognizing you have feelings isn't wrong. It's how you learn to control your actions and reason your response.

> Recognizing you have feelings isn't wrong. It's how you learn to control your actions

If you’re afraid of the monster under your bed, the solution isn’t to clench you teeth—it’s to learn there’s no monster.

Recognising the bias is good. We all have subconscious biases based on fear and disgust. But the solution is to learn more about the thing so it stops triggering a reptilian response.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#186

Post by slg »

ty6853 wrote: post #172
slg wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Or alternatively, someone else with homophobic feelings will use my comment to reflect and realize it's OK to acknowledge their feelings while acknowledging the rights and freedoms of others. I welcome gays the freedom to kiss in public, just as they must accept my freedom to discuss my feelings. It's a two sided coin, and I'm not sure it's a loaded coin as you imply.

[flagged]

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#187

Post by AnthonyMouse »

dragonwriter wrote: post #88
saurik wrote: post #9

This should be held up as a visceral demonstration of how the "slippery slope" isn't inherently a fallacy, as many oft like to claim: it is merely a form of argument that is easy enough to get wrong--leading to a fallacy when the cause is disconnected--that people have become overly-wary of it, reacting to the premise of the conclusion without even bothering to analyze how steep the slope might be before tuning the i…

The slippery slope fallacy is not just the argument style, it is when the argument style is used by the event being held up as a cause is not justifiably believed to be likely to lead to the cited effect. (It is an informal fallacy, rather than a deductive fallacy, and, as such, requires evaluation of evidence, not mere shape of the argument.) Also, neither deductive nor informal fallacies mean that the conclusion of…

If we do X, Y becomes more likely. Y is bad, making a bad thing more likely is bad, therefore doing X has a bad consequence.

That isn't a fallacy at all, it's just an argument that requires you to establish its premises, like all sound arguments. People call it a fallacy as a pejorative when they want to dismiss the legitimate concern and shut down the debate even in the cases where the premise is correct.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#188

Post by slg »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #174
slg wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is not reasonable. That doesnt make him prejudiced. He just likes bananas and doesnt like natto. I dont want to see morbidly obese people naked either, its gross to me.

>That doesnt make him prejudiced

It is literally the dictionary definition of prejudice.

From Merriam-Webster[1]:

>1. b (1) - an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

They directly said "two dudes kissing... feels wrong to me but when I try to come up with an explanation I have none." That is an "adverse opinion" they immediately admit to holding "without just grounds".

[1] - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#189

Post by mschoch »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #174
slg wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is not reasonable. That doesnt make him prejudiced. He just likes bananas and doesnt like natto. I dont want to see morbidly obese people naked either, its gross to me.

[dead]

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#190

Post by squigz »

autoexec wrote: post #181

> California’s AB-728 mandates age verification for anyone purchasing skin care products or cosmetics that contain certain chemicals like Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy acids. On the surface, this may seem harmless—who doesn't want to ensure that minors are safe from harmful chemicals? Why would we want to keep minors safe from "harmful chemicals" but not adults? If skin cream products with Vitamin A or alpha hydroxy aci…

Probably for the same reason we allow adults to smoke and drink but not children.
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