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Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

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Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#21

Post by generalizations »

baby_souffle wrote: post #12
dinkblam wrote: post #3

age verification should be backed into the browser and not into websites. parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). governments should be free to go after any website not respecting that setting. but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic.

> but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic. Agree. > parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). How would this work? Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site on the internet just so a guardian can say "yes to drugs, no to porn, no to news, no to weapons..."? Or if that's…

This is the core fallacy I see in proponents of such rules: they think the rules can be enforced.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#22

Post by mandevil »

plasma_beam wrote: post #13

Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually make me enter a birthdate. Slightly more annoying but I always make one up. Is this what people are upset about? I get actual age verification with an account required or checking my ID is more invasive..but I guess I’ve not experienced this as an actual proble…

This is about a Texas Law that went before the Supreme Court recently.

Texas' law, H.B. 1181, requires people visiting porn websites to prove their age by either uploading government-issued identification or a "commercially reasonable method" such as bank information. More than a dozen other states have passed similar bills, though they are all on hold pending what the Supreme Court decides.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#23

Post by simion314 »

baby_souffle wrote: post #12
dinkblam wrote: post #3

age verification should be backed into the browser and not into websites. parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). governments should be free to go after any website not respecting that setting. but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic.

> but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic. Agree. > parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). How would this work? Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site on the internet just so a guardian can say "yes to drugs, no to porn, no to news, no to weapons..."? Or if that's…

>How would this work?

Pornhub knows they do not want to have trouble so they will respect the browser setting and not serve minors. There could be an institution that can receive complains about websites not using this API and those wbsites can be blocked from the country and fined if possible until they implement the API.

We need all mobile and desktop OSes to make it easy for parents to setup accounts for their children, the church could also educated the people instead of just complaining.

It is not perfect, soem clever kid can find a way to reset the BIOS/UEFI and install Ubuntu with a fake age on his PC , but most parents can feel safe and we would not have to show our ID card to Pornhub or even Steam because some game shows nipples and nipples are more dangerous in USA then nazi propaganda.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#24

Post by convolvatron »

generalizations wrote: post #21
baby_souffle wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic. Agree. > parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). How would this work? Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site on the internet just so a guardian can say "yes to drugs, no to porn, no to news, no to weapons..."? Or if that's…

This is the core fallacy I see in proponents of such rules: they think the rules can be enforced.

I think the parent had an even more important fallacy - that the rules can't even be _stated_. there is an implicit presumption that everyone everywhere agrees on what material is appropriate for what people and at what age.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#25

Post by RDaneel0livaw »

plasma_beam wrote: post #13

Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually make me enter a birthdate. Slightly more annoying but I always make one up. Is this what people are upset about? I get actual age verification with an account required or checking my ID is more invasive..but I guess I’ve not experienced this as an actual proble…

I live in a state where they have banned all porn sites entirely. If I try to go to pornhub there's a statement from the company saying I can't access it at all. Period. It's beyond absurd into the realm of comedy levels of incompetence from the gov.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#27

Post by ryandvm »

plasma_beam wrote: post #13

Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually make me enter a birthdate. Slightly more annoying but I always make one up. Is this what people are upset about? I get actual age verification with an account required or checking my ID is more invasive..but I guess I’ve not experienced this as an actual proble…

Certain US states are requiring the porn sites actually do rigorous age verification via scanned documents. I believe PornHub just opted to stay out of those states entirely hoping that their "reverse boycott" would cause enough of a backlash to get the laws changed. I'm not sure it's working.

That said, as a parent to teenagers, I don't know that I believe that age verification is such a terrible idea. The reality is that there's a lot of fucked up porn out there and blocking it effectively across all networks and every device is non-trivial. I understand this is a minority viewpoint on HN.

Of course I have absolutely no interest in uploading scans of my drivers license to porn sites so I don't know what the right answer is. I'm sure there's some cryptographic scheme whereby a 3rd party could verify my identity without knowing for what purpose and then the porn sites could validate that verification without disclosing who or what I'm doing. I dunno.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#28

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

mandevil wrote: post #22
plasma_beam wrote: post #13

Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually make me enter a birthdate. Slightly more annoying but I always make one up. Is this what people are upset about? I get actual age verification with an account required or checking my ID is more invasive..but I guess I’ve not experienced this as an actual proble…

This is about a Texas Law that went before the Supreme Court recently. Texas' law, H.B. 1181, requires people visiting porn websites to prove their age by either uploading government-issued identification or a "commercially reasonable method" such as bank information. More than a dozen other states have passed similar bills, though they are all on hold pending what the Supreme Court decides.

There's just too much money to be made selling porn to children.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#29

Post by michaelmior »

baby_souffle wrote: post #12
dinkblam wrote: post #3

age verification should be backed into the browser and not into websites. parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). governments should be free to go after any website not respecting that setting. but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic.

> but forcing the age-verification onto websites is just moronic. Agree. > parents should be able to access a (password protected) setting in any browser that can exclude some types of websites (like porn). How would this work? Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site on the internet just so a guardian can say "yes to drugs, no to porn, no to news, no to weapons..."? Or if that's…

> How would this work? Who's going to set up the taxonomy / classification tree for every domain/site on the internet just so a guardian can say "yes to drugs, no to porn, no to news, no to weapons..."?

This isn't really an answer, but the same problem exists with current age verification laws. I think the main difference with traditional parental control software is that the burden would be on the site maintainer to accurately report the appropriateness of their content. If not, they would be legally liable. Of course this introduces the problem that foreign entities not subject to the law are effectively exempt from the requirement.

Re: Age Verification Laws: A Backdoor to Surveillance

#30

Post by evil-olive »

plasma_beam wrote: post #13

Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually make me enter a birthdate. Slightly more annoying but I always make one up. Is this what people are upset about? I get actual age verification with an account required or checking my ID is more invasive..but I guess I’ve not experienced this as an actual proble…

your confusion is understandable, because "age verification" can mean anything from "check the box that says you're 18" to "upload a picture of the front and back of your driver's license".

> When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18.

if you were in Texas, it'd be not reachable at all [0]. this is due to a bill [1] that would have required Pornhub to use the more intrusive age-verification options. it also allows for significant fines for non-compliance. if a 16 year old kid used their 19 year old brother's ID to get through the verification, Pornhub could potentially be liable for up to $250k. and the broadest reading of that bill would mean that quarter-million fine applies every time a minor bypassed the age-verification check.

0: https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/14/texas-pornhub-5th-ci...

1: https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/html/HB01181F...

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