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How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

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Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#61

Post by crossroadsguy »

benterix wrote: post #55
thefz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DAN tests without your partner's consent or a court order, are not legal in several countries, like France for example. I want to know the rationale behind this but I'm quite sure it's some "but think of the kiiids" catholic rhetoric.

It is. But obviously people do it anyway: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/french-men-s-insecurity-over... The only problem is, after you've done it, and it turns out the child is not yours, you have two problems.

> In France, a country where infidelity is more often regarded as pleasure than sin, the percentage may be higher.

No wonder France decided to ban the tests

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#62

Post by 123yawaworht456 »

lores wrote: post #39
jorvi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is nuts is that in some countries, its illegal for the father to unilaterally have a paternity test done. I know for France that if you have it done unilaterally and thus illegally you are still on the hook for child support until a legal test is done, which either the mother needs to agree to or needs to be agreed on by the court. IMO a paternity test should just be mandated to be done immediately at birth (or…

In most countries, including France, you are on the hook for child support if you named yourself as a parent. In France you may contest it by applying to court during the first five years, after that only a prosecutor can take the steps to revoke that status. Between the unfairness of making an adult pay for a child who isn't theirs, and that of throwing an innocent child into financial distress, protecting the child…

>Between the unfairness to make an adult pay for a child who isn't theirs and the unfairness to throw an innocent child into financial distress, protecting the child takes priority everywhere I know of.

I wonder how would you react if you received a notification that half your paycheck will be henceforth withheld to support some random kid.

this comparison is not entirely fair, because in this scenario, the kid's mother did not deliver a grievous, unforgivable insult to you - which is the case with those poor souls who got scammed into paying child support for some whore's bastard whelp.

the state doesn't give a flying fuck about the child's 'financial distress'. the state simply doesn't want to support it.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#63

Post by lores »

123yawaworht456 wrote: post #62
lores wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries, including France, you are on the hook for child support if you named yourself as a parent. In France you may contest it by applying to court during the first five years, after that only a prosecutor can take the steps to revoke that status. Between the unfairness of making an adult pay for a child who isn't theirs, and that of throwing an innocent child into financial distress, protecting the child…

>Between the unfairness to make an adult pay for a child who isn't theirs and the unfairness to throw an innocent child into financial distress, protecting the child takes priority everywhere I know of. I wonder how would you react if you received a notification that half your paycheck will be henceforth withheld to support some random kid. this comparison is not entirely fair, because in this scenario, the kid's mot…

That's where French law actually makes sense: after 5 years, it's your kid, even if not biologically, not a random kid. I don't think I would be chuffed, but I understand it's not the kid's fault, too, and I'm not so narcissistic as to think that them having my genes is so important. My anger at the mother should not reflect on the kid.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#64

Post by FirmwareBurner »

thefz wrote: post #49
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the modern world, I don't see how one can be obsessed about such a thing... Theres no obsession here, the author was being needlessly hyperbolical to twist the narrative as if the normal behavior of thinking about paternity makes one "obsessive". The way he phrased it makes it sound like it's normal for the paternal side not to care if he's raising his own kin or not. >Do a DNA test, get answer. Obsession over. D…

> DAN tests without your partner's consent or a court order, are not legal in several countries, like France for example. I want to know the rationale behind this but I'm quite sure it's some "but think of the kiiids" catholic rhetoric.

The rationale is that apparently due to rampant adultery a lot more fathers than previously thought are raising another man's kids without knowing it (apparently about 10% last time I read about it, also on HN) and since raising kids to adulthood is very expensive and so if the men could easily find out their kids are not their own, then the man can legally opt-out of that financial responsibility then the French state/taxpayer has to pick up the tab for the mother's adultery.

So if you make it nearly impossible for men to ever find out, they'll be legally bound to pay for the upbringing of whoever their partner gives birth to, reducing the financial liability of the state.

But the official reason from the state is something along the lines of "we don't want to put kids/families through unnecessary stress". Basically men have to be cash cows regardless.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#65

Post by 123yawaworht456 »

lores wrote: post #63
123yawaworht456 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Between the unfairness to make an adult pay for a child who isn't theirs and the unfairness to throw an innocent child into financial distress, protecting the child takes priority everywhere I know of. I wonder how would you react if you received a notification that half your paycheck will be henceforth withheld to support some random kid. this comparison is not entirely fair, because in this scenario, the kid's mot…

That's where French law actually makes sense: after 5 years, it's your kid, even if not biologically, not a random kid. I don't think I would be chuffed, but I understand it's not the kid's fault, too, and I'm not so narcissistic as to think that them having my genes is so important. My anger at the mother should not reflect on the kid.

[flagged]

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#66

Post by lores »

123yawaworht456 wrote: post #65
lores wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where French law actually makes sense: after 5 years, it's your kid, even if not biologically, not a random kid. I don't think I would be chuffed, but I understand it's not the kid's fault, too, and I'm not so narcissistic as to think that them having my genes is so important. My anger at the mother should not reflect on the kid.

[flagged]

A human being is not a car, and your reference to 'emasculation' is very worrying.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#69

Post by failingslowly »

Two4 wrote: post #59
failingslowly wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. The article also attempts to minimize the importance of the issue, saying "stop panicking [...] it’s not the problem you think it is". Let's assume that their figure of 1% is correct. In the UK in 2021 alone there were 694,685 live births according to Google. That means in one year alone nearly 7,000 children were from "EPP". That's an enormous number of people, mostly men, potentially wrongly pursu…

In the grand scheme of all social issues the UK is beset with, this is small potatoes. It's not hugely important, it's just hugely important to you because it's an emotional issue.

Fair point, but then who are either of us to make that judgement? Who are you to say that it's small potatoes?

In my defense, I'd say that the suicide rate for men is 4x that for women, and that a large proportion of suicides come after divorce and loss of access to children. (Sorry for being hand-wavey, but I can't search for the research to back these claims from where I am currently.)

That alone at least backs the case for more research in this area.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#70

Post by thefz »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #64
thefz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DAN tests without your partner's consent or a court order, are not legal in several countries, like France for example. I want to know the rationale behind this but I'm quite sure it's some "but think of the kiiids" catholic rhetoric.

The rationale is that apparently due to rampant adultery a lot more fathers than previously thought are raising another man's kids without knowing it (apparently about 10% last time I read about it, also on HN) and since raising kids to adulthood is very expensive and so if the men could easily find out their kids are not their own, then the man can legally opt-out of that financial responsibility then the French sta…

> then the French state/taxpayer has to pick up the tab for the mother's adultery

Why not the biological father? That would make sense.

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