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Buy European Made. Support European Values

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261–270 of 295 posts

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#261
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal comes from the country where the Prism [1] is still functioning. While it has open source, NSA can request from deployers on any stage to inject surveillance functionality: request from Signal authors, from Android / Apple Store repository maintainers and probably many other actors on the deployment chain to my mobile phone. I could install it from sources but I do not have any guarantee my message sent to my…

I wonder why can't we have a fully open source e2ee that would be easy to use?

Signal is fully open source.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#262

don't european values include Monarchy?

There are no 'conventional'/old-fashioned monarchies in Europe (except, arguably, for Liechtenstein). Some European countries have monarchs, who are powerless figureheads; executive power rests with the government (even in most European republics, executive power rests with the government, not the president).

Not really powerless. They have powers, but people see them as ceremonial. They're not of course ceremonial, rather it's traditional that they don't fire the loaded gun they're given and everyone pretends like they're not only incapable of it, but doing so would end the monarchy.

The truth is, a monarch with significant ambition could, if the right situation arises or is engineered, convince the populace that their exercise of power is necessary to save the country.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that. But I also think that manufacturers in Europe should do better and not just try to survive on patriotism. Better products == better sales. After all, we live in a capitalist world.

I don't necessarily agree that better products sell the best. Better marketing, better sales, that's the capitalism I know, and European companies would do well to cash in on this generational marketing opportunity.

Okay, that's true, I agree - marketing is the main driver of sales. But it should be more than just "being European". At least it should not cost significantly more than comparable imported equivalents.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#264
post #11
post #8

Not every european company embodies european values. As an example, Signal is listed as a US company people might want a european replacement for – and yet Signal represents european values much better than many of the alternatives.

This is a great point where nationality does not reflect political values. Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. If a global set of "Don't be an asshole" values could be defined, put into words, shared and progressed, it would have much greater value to a consumer and the world than merely going back to nationalism and protectionism.

> If a global set of "Don't be an asshole" values could be defined,

The history of "rights" is what you're looking for, and this would come in the form of a list of rights.

You would probably get a lot out of reading The Declaration of the Rights of Man (https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/rightsof.asp), as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...).

Thomas Paine wrote about the philosophy of rights as well, and you would probably get a lot out of reading his works such as The Rights of Man (https://www.ushistory.org/paine/rights/c1-013.htm)

Something being a right means that law does not grant it. If law granted it, it would be a privilege rather than a right. Governments exist to protect rights, but they don't grant rights. That's the solution to the bootstrapping problem for non authoritarian forms of government and why it is always OK to defend your rights, even if they are illegal under a specific form of government. America's founding document, the declaration of independence, is explicit about this idea.

> shared and progressed

No, this is where you are wrong, you didn't use the word defend, and that's really where the problem with liberal ideas starts and ends. They must be defended, at personal cost, with force.

Defending an idea that can't reward or punish you will not be as profitable or safe as defending a man who can reward or punish you. It is much easier for a man to build an army than for an idea to build an army. It will always be painful to defend your rights in the short term, but if you don't you will never have rights in the long term.

Solidarity, risking your own safety and well being for the benefit of someone else, is the only way to achieve a world you want to live in, but some of the builders of that world won't get to experience it, and that's a hard sell to people who just want to see their kids smile.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no 'conventional'/old-fashioned monarchies in Europe (except, arguably, for Liechtenstein). Some European countries have monarchs, who are powerless figureheads; executive power rests with the government (even in most European republics, executive power rests with the government, not the president).

Not really powerless. They have powers, but people see them as ceremonial. They're not of course ceremonial, rather it's traditional that they don't fire the loaded gun they're given and everyone pretends like they're not only incapable of it, but doing so would end the monarchy. The truth is, a monarch with significant ambition could, if the right situation arises or is engineered, convince the populace that their e…

If that's any help the king of Bulgaria did win the elections (the parliament) and became a prime minister (2001)... yet nothing much went of it.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia. Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the existence of peace and democracy. For the war part, it kinda tickles your butt having a war on your neighbor's garden, I see nothing wrong with supporting such a war (on Ukraine side's, of course)

>I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia. You mean just like politicians from Austria and Germany who were Putin's lobbying arm in Europe, then took jobs at Russian oil and gas companies when their political careers ended? Why didn't they get arrested too? >Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the e…

I would be fine with having corrupt politicians arrested in Germany, too, if they were found guilty of corruption, I do not see why they should be exempt

I do not believe for an instant than the roman salute making roman candidate isn't a Russian asset, given his salute shows support for other Russian friendly politicians currently sitting at the white house.

Regarding the war, AFAIK Ukrainians would rather be in the conditions to continue fighting than to surrender and sign an unfair peace agreement. I would have no issues with rearming Europe if it meant that, as proposed, we would get a better pipeline for European weapons procurement. Having basically stopped the advance of Russia is a huge win on its own, given that it was supposed to be one of the most powerful armies in the world. Shrugging this off as "no progress" is unjust to the taxpayers as well to the Ukrainians

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#267
post #22

Ah ha. Is this the start of MAIA - "Make America Irrelevant Again"? Do they really need the help? Seems like their about to do a great job on that already... ;-)

I don't see this as an attack, but rather a push for independence from the US. I don't want America to be irrelevant, but i don't feel like I can trust them as much as I did before. Both private and in business.

Why would anyone put so much trust in to the US in the past?

I'm American, an army vet, and proud. Yet, I fail to identify anything other than the US acting in their own self interest since WW2. The list is long, but to name a few, Vietnam, War on terror, mass surveillance network, etc...

People are waxing poetic about an America that never was.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did because that's exactly what people want, it's just that many people will tell you otherwise because they live in an information bubble and cannot believe that there exists voters outside of their bubble.

Same with opinions on HN. People here don't realize they're in a bubble and their opinions aren't representative for the masses. If you tell them that you get downvoted and flagged.

I'm sorry but it sounds like you were trying to spread conspiracy theories, the way you are putting it. Do you have some examples?

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#269
post #150
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. I can’t speak for Russia because I have no data, but most Americans don’t carry the opinion of this government.

My point was that a company, and thus products and employees, do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the government of which it is based. Besides taking ethical actions, how do you signal that that you share a certain set of political values with your consumers and shareholders, instead of your "somewhat arbitrary" law makers. It is a big shift, and not always an option, to move physical factories, workplaces, etc…

I agree, but there are also cases where it is blatantly clear that companies are not only on Trumps side but taking initiative themselves to corrode our political culture, and people here in europe are too comfy to make a switch, apart from a lack of similar alternatives.

X and Meta are most obvious, and I don't know about google's involvement, but have been trying to convince people to move away from it for years. It's a similar situation with streaming services.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with opinions on HN. People here don't realize they're in a bubble and their opinions aren't representative for the masses. If you tell them that you get downvoted and flagged.

I'm sorry but it sounds like you were trying to spread conspiracy theories, the way you are putting it. Do you have some examples?

Maybe something like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43068557 and this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43264608
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