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Do you have a secret?

doyouhaveasecret.org

101–107 of 107 posts

Re: Do you have a secret?

#101
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you propose instead? Direct vote on every issue?

It would be an interesting thought, certainly I'd be willing to entertain the idea of some kind of e-voting system, wherein people could, at very least, keep a running poll for each senator/representative in their jurisdiction regarding each piece of legislation, maybe make it an electoral college/delegate thing. Accurate information is hard to come by in those regards, so a lot of politicians vote the way they've vo…

Representatives know exactly who's supplying their campaign money and other inducements. And probably know how many citizens support various positions.

Knowing is not the problem. Doing is the problem.

Re: Do you have a secret?

#102
I am never sure just how much point there is to opposing such bills, due to my assumption that intelligence agencies always have and always will have all the indiscriminate access to domestic communications that they want. I think even publicised history provides more than abundant examples of that.

If there is a real fight, it is over criminal procedure, rules of evidence, and other things useful in more banal dealings with law enforcement, and thus having some bearing on the juridical outcome in the event that one is prosecuted (or persecuted) on the basis of some illegal surveillance technique. In other words, you could get acquitted of dealing drugs if the state's main evidence against you is something obtained through warrantless electronic surveillance, and that surveillance is illegal. And that's important.

But why is it important? It's important because it's small stuff, not the kind of stuff governments would throw national-level resources like NSA supercomputers at. So, the argument is really about the gaps, not the fringes. As far as terrorism and national security-type activities go, it seems to me they already have unlimited _de facto_ authority, capability, and inclination to spy on you all they want, and that this has more or less always been true.

Thus, I find that the rhetoric is a bit off. This isn't about stopping the government having "access to your e-mails". They already have that, in principle. With enough initiative and spiritual commitment, they can track you, read your e-mail, and listen to your voice communications. The real objective ought to be framed more precisely, perhaps something like: "There shouldn't be a law that goes out of its way to grant unto pedestrian police the formal sanction to employ surveillance capabilities hitherto the province of spooky intelligence agencies".

However, that's a lot harder to sell.

Re: Do you have a secret?

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something bad happens, and the first thing on your mind is, "We have to blame this on somebody!" And you wonder why America is mocked as such a litigious country...

Im always surprised by peoples aversion for trying to put blame on someone or some thing. Finding where the fault was is part of the process to make sure an error doesn't happen again. I think there's confusion with the "blame game". As in, once you can blame someone, the problem is over and solved but that's just the start to solving the problem. I always want to know who did something wrong and how it happened so w…

Because as people state in this other thread (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4176658) quite clearly:

"It's not about pointing the finger or otherwise apportioning blame. It's about learning from mistakes and preventing them from happening again."

Just assigning blame is a cop-out that doesn't do anything other than make people better by finding a scapegoat and punishing that scapegoat as a result.

Re: Do you have a secret?

#105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be an interesting thought, certainly I'd be willing to entertain the idea of some kind of e-voting system, wherein people could, at very least, keep a running poll for each senator/representative in their jurisdiction regarding each piece of legislation, maybe make it an electoral college/delegate thing. Accurate information is hard to come by in those regards, so a lot of politicians vote the way they've vo…

Representatives know exactly who's supplying their campaign money and other inducements. And probably know how many citizens support various positions. Knowing is not the problem. Doing is the problem.

If you could only hire an attorney from 2 options selected by other people that you had no control over and you couldn't fire him for 4 years, who do you think your attorney would be working for?

Re: Do you have a secret?

#106
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blame it on faulty software and faultier human interpretation So you mean blame it on no one but a man's life gets destroyed. And you wonder why they get away with murder...

Something bad happens, and the first thing on your mind is, "We have to blame this on somebody!" And you wonder why America is mocked as such a litigious country...

What you're talking about is "lets jail someone for no reason other than this computer said so and oops we weren't supposed to jail him. SO SORRY"

I am more concerned with the person who had his life destroyed, not so much the system. The system is guaranteed to muck up, by definition.

Re: Do you have a secret?

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im always surprised by peoples aversion for trying to put blame on someone or some thing. Finding where the fault was is part of the process to make sure an error doesn't happen again. I think there's confusion with the "blame game". As in, once you can blame someone, the problem is over and solved but that's just the start to solving the problem. I always want to know who did something wrong and how it happened so w…

Because as people state in this other thread ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4176658 ) quite clearly: "It's not about pointing the finger or otherwise apportioning blame. It's about learning from mistakes and preventing them from happening again." Just assigning blame is a cop-out that doesn't do anything other than make people better by finding a scapegoat and punishing that scapegoat as a result.

Actually, I really don't care about blaming a person or a thing. What I am most concerned about is that the person who was most affected by the issue (the people who were incorrectly arrested) are made whole, as best as they can be.

This would include, to my mind, monetary compensation as well as having the offenders cover the cost of mental rehabilitation.

It's a traumatic experience and we should not be so heartless.

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