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Buy European Made. Support European Values

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Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#241

Post by attendant3446 »

I don't see the point. Why should it be European (or American, Japanese, Chinese or whatever)? Shouldn't it be better value/quality? Not everything is better just because it's European. I believe that if someone is doing something great (incl. privacy policy, support, etc.) it shouldn't matter if it's European or from somewhere else.

I live in the EU and I often see this cult of people deliberately buying worse things just because it's European. Yet there are many areas where a European alternative is worse than the imported one. I'd say support quality and innovation, not nationality.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#242

Post by thefringthing »

protonbob wrote: post #228
ivan_gammel wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the question that is easy to answer with a single document: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/treaty/char_2012/oj/eng

freedom of speech is notably absent here.

Title II, Article 11.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#243

Post by philistine »

greedylizard wrote: post #110
Goto80 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, how did this government get a majority?

The electoral college rigs the game. If one person equaled one vote, American government could look significantly different right now.

Those are sufficient excuses that prevent countries from signing free trade deals with other nations: we don't trust the health of your political system to sign a free trade deal with your nation.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#244

Post by Tainnor »

jltsiren wrote: post #139
sras-me wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is broad consensus in Europe.. How is this measured actually? By what the media and public institutions say? Is there poll targeted at the common working man that says the same? I highly doubts so.

Most European countries have proportional elections, at least for some levels of the government. Such elections give a pretty good idea of the popular support for various ideologies. On the average, parties that are broadly aligned with US Republicans get ~25% of the votes, though there is a lot of variation from country to country.

Even many the parties that are otherwise "broadly aligned with US Republicans" fundamentally disagree with Trump on Ukraine, such as FN, FdI, PiS, ...

Of course, there are AfD and Fidesz, but they occupy the minority position even within that spectrum.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#245

Post by philistine »

a12k wrote: post #26
c03 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point where nationality does not reflect political values. Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. If a global set of "Don't be an asshole" values could be defined, put into words, shared and progressed, it would have much greater value to a consumer and the world than merely going back to nationalism and protectionism.

> Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. I can’t speak for Russia because I have no data, but most Americans don’t carry the opinion of this government.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. We haven't blocked trade only with the segment of Iranians who support their government's nuclear program. We blocked trade with all Iranians, and put extra restrictions on specific government actors who enact nuclear policy.

Same thing with Russia. Or Syria. Or North Korea. In foreign affairs, all the citizens of a nation are collectively held responsible for the action of that state.

Which is to say: stop hedging. This is your government. You cannot wash your hands of this mess because you voted for Kodos. It's your mess, admit it, and see what you can do to fix it. The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#247

Post by AlecSchueler »

attendant3446 wrote: post #241

I don't see the point. Why should it be European (or American, Japanese, Chinese or whatever)? Shouldn't it be better value/quality? Not everything is better just because it's European. I believe that if someone is doing something great (incl. privacy policy, support, etc.) it shouldn't matter if it's European or from somewhere else. I live in the EU and I often see this cult of people deliberately buying worse thing…

Have you ever heard the term voting with your wallet? Well, you're not only voting for the company whose product you're buying, you're also enriching the country that houses them. People in Europe are increasingly worried about hostility from the US and many people are rapidly trying to reduce their support for and reliance on the ruling regime.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#248

Post by AlecSchueler »

t_mann wrote: post #122

I get why people might feel this impulse, but they should realize that it follows the same logic as tariffs. You do not gain by closing yourself off from the world. Having the choice among the best products in the world is prosperity. Whether you restrain yourself by choice or by force, it's the same zero-sum mindset. Free trade, with some exceptions for fledgling industries, is one of the rare cases that makes every…

We still have free trade, we're just choosing to exercise our freedom as consumers.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#250

Post by AlecSchueler »

apwell23 wrote: post #227
surgical_fire wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Were you in a coma until a couple of hours ago and just read this thread without any prior context? lol whats with you and personal insults. maybe step away from the screen, take a breather, drink some tea or something.

I agree there's no need for personal insults here, it's not nice to see especially on HN where one comes to expect better, but I think you can understand the place of exasperation it was coming from. The American government has become vociferously hostile in a very pronounced way recently and for the people on the receiving end of the hostility it feels like an attack in itself to hear "what's the problem, why are you worried?"
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