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Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

reuters.com

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Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#261

Post by [deleted] »

m4rtink wrote: post #139
clivestaples wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I'm asking: what tools? The only thing I see is endless supply of money and ammo which means attrition. Russia will win in manpower but maybe not economically. I'm kindly asking to be educated with more than talking points we've all heard from politicians.

Not arbitrarily stopping intel sharing and - reportedly - remotely disabling supplied wepons (!!) would be a good first step. Like if you ever want anyone to give you a single dolar for your weapons in the future.

[deleted]

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#262

Post by Vilian »

EA-3167 wrote: post #191
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germans have the money, the largest GDP in the EU and France is a distant second For nuclear purposes Germany is irrelevant. For martial purposes, it’s a distant second to France. It obviously should be part of mutual-defence discussions. But it doesn’t need to be and doesn’t bring that much to the table in the short term. (Absent a hypothetical land war.)

Again, when we're talking about warfare, there is a strong economic and industrial dimension. Unless the scope of your warfare is limited to extremely fatalistic worst-case scenarios. Russia was on the ropes in many ways because of the cost of the war they're waging, while Ukraine was in a stronger position because of aid and promises of future rebuilding investment. If push comes to shove and there's a European conf…

Don't matter if they spend twice the money on military if that money don't return, France has aircraft programs nuclear programs etc while spending half what Germany do

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#263

Post by Vilian »

tombert wrote: post #137
pqtyw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think France or Britain would nuke New York? And there isn't that much point for Russia to nuke their new ally either.

I don't think it's super likely, though if our president decides to declare war to try reignite American imperialism, then it seems like it could happen. He's already talked about invading Greenland, what's to stop him from trying to invade somewhere else, somewhere with more firepower to fight back? All it would take is Fox News or OAN to start running stories about how the US is actually entitled to the land of Fra…

Isn't US military well independent? So they would just refuse in contrast with authoritarian militaries like russia where they don't have that power

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#264

Post by Gud »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #73

For several reasons, France is uniquely positioned to be the leader of Europe. Nuclear arms, a lot of nuclear energy, defense industry, food independence. All of this thanks to Charles De Gaulle, who insisted that France must be autonomous in most important domains. With hindsight, this was extremely important. Without France's nuclear energy and arms, Europe would be in a very very bad position right now.

This was always obvious and my native Sweden was doing the same thing.

Unfortunately, our competent leadership was gradually replaced with charlatans and imposters and we are now in a terrible situation.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#265

Post by Vilian »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #254
quackscience wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Yorker here. Last year one of my meditation teachers here in the city casually mentioned that in some sects of Tibetan Buddhism there's a prophecy of some sort of catastrophic global event between 2026 and 2032, and a former monk friend of his advised him to leave NYC by 2030. From some casual googling it seems like the text is "The Light That Makes Things Clear: A Prophecy of Things to Come". I'm a non-believer…

My personal 'unknown wisdom' conspiracy is that there's some knowledge about UAPs which is why politicians are being so weird. Rubio/Vance going from calling Trump a nazi to joining him. I know it's just they're shitty people, but part of me would rather it's some secret UAP knowledge.

And what UAP has with Trump? Remember US is going crazy others Democratic countries aren't and russia is being russia, don't confuse USA going downhill because of their shit politics as the world is going under, cold war was a lot worse

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#266

Post by Vilian »

tetrisgm wrote: post #157

I’m simple on that notion: Russia is our adversary. They have assassinated people in the EU and UK. Sabotaged our pipelines. Paid anti EU politicians. Threatened EU powers. Shot down civilian flights. Made plans to invade the Baltics. They are an adversary. We have weapons and an army. We should neutralize that adversary. Russia has currently lost momentum in Ukraine. So they are seeking a temporary peace, to rebuild…

The argument to rebuild don't work because Ukraine can rebuild too, and russia is advancing at snail speed but still, and a Ukraine rebuild would complete derail that advance with better defenses

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#267

Post by Vilian »

pqtyw wrote: post #132
onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

> The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes To be fair Ukraine didn't really have nukes. I mean they technically had nukes in their territory and maybe could have kept them if they really wanted to but it's a bit like e.g. Scotland trying to keep British nukes after declaring independence. Wouldn't make a lot sense. Economically Ukraine was in a horrible state. Nuclear weapons have extremely high cost and I'm not…

You forget that development and nuclear power knowledge comes from Ukraine, so they had nukes and were direct involved on it's creation if wasn't created by them

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#268

Post by Vilian »

jimbob45 wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the next move? Let the Ukrainians decide. The war could have been over if Biden and Musk hadn’t meddled in Kyiv’s strategy. There is no peace with a Moscow that believes it can gain resources and mollify its population with wars of expansion. Pausing in Ukraine just allows for build-up for another wave. Maybe in Ukraine. Maybe elsewhere.

The war could have been over if Biden and Musk hadn’t meddled in Kyiv’s strategy. This is the exact line of thinking that Hitler used to justify WW2. Surely we can all see this logic for the farce that it is. Ukraine never had a shot at winning this war and it’s only with massive international support that they’re able to maintain the fragile stalemate they now find themselves in.

They never had a shot so they used black magic to drive russia out of Kyiv in the first days of the wars?

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#269

Post by rafaelmn »

jajko wrote: post #89
rafaelmn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let the Ukrainians decide. With money and military/economic tensions for EU and US ? EU might have some interest in stabilizing the border and preventing future threats, but US literally has no interest there. And the only EU member that possibly had to worry about Russia is Finland, but they are in NATO now.

What motivation? russia is US sworn enemy, always was and always will be. Only fools don't take chance to make your enemy weaker, especially when its causing it to itself by their own stupidity and greed. US waged wars for less, far less.

I think from Trumps POV Russia is not that relevant and China is the rival. US has spats with Russia when they play globalist games, but Trump does not seem to be that interested in playing and Chinese are way stronger than Russia recently since they are growing their presence in Africa and SA.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#270

Post by Vilian »

palata wrote: post #173
aerostable_slug wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the weapons. Certainly France is competitive when it comes to ships and many expendable munitions, but they aren't selling F-35s and the US is, and so far it seems that the juice is worth the substantial squeeze when it comes to that jet. The race is largely for second, because first place (the Lightning) is so far in front of the pack.

The F-35 is an expensive, very criticised (even inside the US) plane and the US notoriously have some kind of backdoor to it. It makes no sense to me that the EU would buy F-35 other than as a way to give money to the US ("buying protection").

F-35 is cheaper than the f14 converting, so not a good argument, the high selling numbers of it help drive the price down
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