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Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

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Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#81

Post by apical_dendrite »

beebaween wrote: post #53
Raidion wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the hiring people that's the problem. Assuming those people "cost" 300k a year all in (benefits/offices,etc) which is probably high, that's $24 billion. The government spent $6.8 trillion, cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891%. Cutting the people without cutting the programs won't do much and is (IMO) a problem in that you should be able to access government services in a way that the writers of the law…

very fraction of a percent counts... small things add up quickly... Idk why this is a political issue? As a progressive I also support firing people who aren't producing effective outcomes for veterans. With all we save that money SHOULD be used to actually help veterans.

Why do you think they aren't producing effective outcomes? The administration's track record is that it cuts indiscriminately, without considering the impact, and then sometimes tries to backtrack and rehire people when critical things break.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#82

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bpt3 wrote: post #74
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could we stop talking about top marginal income tax rates as if graduated income taxation wasn't a thing? You will pay less taxes in California than Mississippi or Alabama if you are poor. Even if you are a single person in California making $400k/year (which I would call pretty rich!), you are only paying 8.38% of your income in state tax (you don't even hit the 13.3% bracket until a million dollars or so?). In tota…

The OP of this thread wants to keep spending the same and says that taxing the rich is the solution to our budget woes, so that's why the top marginal rates are relevant, and most state income taxes aren't as progressive as the ones in CA. Your example of a CA resident who is making $400k is paying a marginal rate of 35% at the federal level and 10.30% at the state level (not 8.38%), which is above the EU average.

> and most state income taxes aren't as progressive as the ones in CA.

That's why poor wind up paying more in flat tax states, it is simply WAI.

Marginal rates don't matter as much as how much you actually pay. On paper, CA has a top rate of 12.3%...on income over 720k dollars. It exists, but it doesn't seem like a thing we should ponder too much.

States only have so much power in setting tax rates, given that people are somewhat mobile. California being overpopulated for so long gave them some latitude here, but honestly income inequality isn't going to be handled at any level below federal.

But the point about Europe is right, but only in the sense that Europeans don't pay nearly as much in income taxes as most Americans think they do.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#83

Post by nameless912 »

blindriver wrote: post #72
nameless912 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how much extra waste will be generated by losing the experts in these bureaucracies? Of course some of them are redundant, but some of them have the proverbial bathroom codes and are irreplaceable. These cuts are incredibly irresponsible; cutting _programs_, along with the staff associated with those programs, is IMO wrong but at least workable as a long term cost reduction strategy. Just slashing staff left and…

Citation required that we are losing "experts" or that people can't learn any government job in weeks/months with higher efficiency.

NOAA just fired hundreds of weather forecasters. World class ones, literally some of the best meteorologists in the world. And they knew how to interact with NOAA's systems to gather data and publish forecasts, issue realtime watches and warnings, and a thousand other things. Realtime forecasts are _vital_ to hundreds of different industries and save thousands of lives a year, and part of that is because they are able to quickly issue new forecasts when the situation changes. We get tornado warnings, fire forecasts, tsunami warnings, and a whole bunch else with enough time to get to safety because of these extremely talented folks.

These people are irreplaceable. And I know one of these forecasters very well, he's an old friend of mine. He is done with the federal government; even if they offer him his job back he's not going back, because his trust that his job as a meteorologist was safe is smashed to pieces. That's irreparable harm.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#84

Post by nameless912 »

WalterBright wrote: post #79
nameless912 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how much extra waste will be generated by losing the experts in these bureaucracies? Of course some of them are redundant, but some of them have the proverbial bathroom codes and are irreplaceable. These cuts are incredibly irresponsible; cutting _programs_, along with the staff associated with those programs, is IMO wrong but at least workable as a long term cost reduction strategy. Just slashing staff left and…

> Just slashing staff left and right is malpractice All businesses above a certain size do that, because there's no other practical way.

Sure there is. _Cut initiatives_, and exit the related staff. Don't cut staff without a corresponding cut to programs.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#85

Post by jrs235 »

marcusverus wrote: post #73
blindriver wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate this attitude. "$24 billion a year is nothing compared to the deficit so we should just ignore it and keep spending." Spending cuts have to start SOMEWHERE. Saying $24 billion is ignorable is insane. We are in a critical debt situation and my children's future is at stake.

It's an intentionally deceptive framing, so you should hate it. $24 Billion is $183 per taxpayer per year. I sure as hell think $180/year is a lot of money, and if the government is going to forcibly take 1/4 of my friggin' salary every year, they really ought to be at least as careful with my money as I am!

I don't think blindly saving $183/year is worth throwing a wrench into our economic engine that provides everyone else an ecocomy that allows us to have jobs and things. I think we we need more thoughtful cuts rather than just thoughtlessly making cuts. Speed doesn't kill, the sudden change in velocity is what kills. All these cuts so quickly is going to kill the economy. This desire for instant gratification/change is like slamming on the brakes, for a dog in the road a mile away, and we don't have seatbelts. People will suffer and die. Depression approaching.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#86

Post by blindriver »

bathtub365 wrote: post #75
blindriver wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation required that we are losing "experts" or that people can't learn any government job in weeks/months with higher efficiency.

What do you think government workers (as if this was an actual job title) do?

I worked in government. I know exactly what it looks like and how 33% of workers could be cut with no effect besides the rest being scared of losing their cushy jobs.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#87

Post by jrs235 »

WalterBright wrote: post #79
nameless912 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how much extra waste will be generated by losing the experts in these bureaucracies? Of course some of them are redundant, but some of them have the proverbial bathroom codes and are irreplaceable. These cuts are incredibly irresponsible; cutting _programs_, along with the staff associated with those programs, is IMO wrong but at least workable as a long term cost reduction strategy. Just slashing staff left and…

> Just slashing staff left and right is malpractice All businesses above a certain size do that, because there's no other practical way.

Government isn't a business.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#88

Post by bpt3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #82
bpt3 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP of this thread wants to keep spending the same and says that taxing the rich is the solution to our budget woes, so that's why the top marginal rates are relevant, and most state income taxes aren't as progressive as the ones in CA. Your example of a CA resident who is making $400k is paying a marginal rate of 35% at the federal level and 10.30% at the state level (not 8.38%), which is above the EU average.

> and most state income taxes aren't as progressive as the ones in CA. That's why poor wind up paying more in flat tax states, it is simply WAI. Marginal rates don't matter as much as how much you actually pay. On paper, CA has a top rate of 12.3%...on income over 720k dollars. It exists, but it doesn't seem like a thing we should ponder too much. States only have so much power in setting tax rates, given that people…

> But the point about Europe is right, but only in the sense that Europeans don't pay nearly as much in income taxes as most Americans think they do.

Why do you say this? Middle class Europeans pay significantly higher taxes than middle class Americans.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#89

Post by [deleted] »

bpt3 wrote: post #62
kstrauser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are the official spending numbers[0]. The largest categories are: * Social Security * Medicare * National Defense * Interest payments * Health * Income Security * VA Benefits Which of those categories are we overspending on? Which specific cuts do you want to make? It's impossible for one to claim they're serious about saving money without talking about slashing Social Security, Medicare, and the military, which…

What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich? The American middle and lower class are the least taxed individuals in the developed world. The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. I'm certainly open to changing how things like dividend income are treated, but the rich don't have enough money to solve our budge…

[deleted]

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#90

Post by throw0101a »

blindriver wrote: post #15

Holy hell, they hired 83,000 people since 2019? Does no one care we are $36T in debt? 40% of our income taxes go to paying just the interest on our debt!

> Holy hell, they hired 83,000 people since 2019?

Given that there's been a fairly steady ~2.9M federal employees for a few decades now, 83k isn't that much:

* https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001

> Does no one care we are $36T in debt?

The GOP certainly doesn't, given that they keep cutting revenue:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act

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