Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…
[flagged]
Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
111–120 of 302 posts
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#112They had been threatened by Russia with nuclear weapons and it looks like when push comes to shove the US is not going to defend them(go to ww3) using nuclear weapons.
Trump's actions about WW3 means that countries that have nukes are first class, and the rest are third class. It looks like a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in which nuclear countries divide the non nuclear's territories.
When Russia invaded Ukraine it had almost nobody defending the border, that was the reason of Kursk offensive success.
The official story was that "Russia had to defend itself from NATO invasion". In reality they knew nobody was going to invade a nuclear power not having nukes, while they could invade freely.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#113Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…
I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.
It will make the world a safer place. That's why Macron is opening up this discussion at all.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US funded wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years with no idea what the next move was, no tangible end in sight, and stakes far lower. The so-called threat of weapons of mass destruction was enough to swiftly defeat Iraq's army, topple its government, and start an unprecedented manhunt for its leader. Russia has invaded a neighboring country twice and spent the first two years of the war they started threatenin…
Because this President campaigned on ending the long wars, which he opposed. I'm not sure where the confusion lies because Trump has been very clear about getting the US out of what he views as foreign entanglements. I'm not passing judgement on it, just noting that what we're seeing is consistent with his campaign messaging.
The point is our alliances are also foreign entanglements. These idiots didn’t think through that withdrawing from those means fewer weapons (and other) orders from America, more nukes pointed at America and less strategic depth between our adversaries and our shores.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#115Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…
Most important piece here, don't despair, protect your people, build mutual aid communities with your neighbors and friends, there is no one coming to save us but ourselves.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also selling weapons. What this idiot of Trump seems to have missed is that countries have been purchasing weapons to the US to actually purchase US protection (like Australia did when they cancelled the submarine purchase they did to France to purchase US ones instead). Now that the US has announced being an unreliable protector, there is probably good business opportunities for all the countries that are nuclear po…
Depends on the weapons. Certainly France is competitive when it comes to ships and many expendable munitions, but they aren't selling F-35s and the US is, and so far it seems that the juice is worth the substantial squeeze when it comes to that jet. The race is largely for second, because first place (the Lightning) is so far in front of the pack.
They will hopefully purchase Eurofighter or Rafale or whatever else in the future.
[1] (fr) https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/03/15/la-d...
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US funded wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years with no idea what the next move was, no tangible end in sight, and stakes far lower. The so-called threat of weapons of mass destruction was enough to swiftly defeat Iraq's army, topple its government, and start an unprecedented manhunt for its leader. Russia has invaded a neighboring country twice and spent the first two years of the war they started threatenin…
Because this President campaigned on ending the long wars, which he opposed. I'm not sure where the confusion lies because Trump has been very clear about getting the US out of what he views as foreign entanglements. I'm not passing judgement on it, just noting that what we're seeing is consistent with his campaign messaging.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.
Why more dangerous? I am worried about religious fanatics armed with nuclear weapons. I am not really worried about Germany, South Korea, Japan or Taiwan armed with them. The more deterence, the less likely there will be a war. You go to war when you think you can get away with it, not when you think there is even a 10% chance all you major cities will be nuked.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.
Makes me wonder if I should get the hell out of New York. Seriously, if someone decides to nuke the US, where would they start? Almost certainly Washington DC and NYC. The US is too big to bomb in its entirety. Maybe I should move to Boise, Idaho or something. I don't think they're going to get bombed, and it seems nice.
Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies
#120Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…
> The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed No they didn't. There was never any promise like that.
There wasn’t a treaty obligation. But there was a promise.
Similarly, there is no treaty obligation for America to respond to Russia nuking Paris with even harsh words. Just promises around the treaty obligation to take “such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force” [1].
Let there be no doubt: the United States is defaulting on its promises in Ukraine.
[1] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm