Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 302 posts

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#101

Post by ldng »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #72
forty wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also selling weapons. What this idiot of Trump seems to have missed is that countries have been purchasing weapons to the US to actually purchase US protection (like Australia did when they cancelled the submarine purchase they did to France to purchase US ones instead). Now that the US has announced being an unreliable protector, there is probably good business opportunities for all the countries that are nuclear po…

Depends on the weapons. Certainly France is competitive when it comes to ships and many expendable munitions, but they aren't selling F-35s and the US is, and so far it seems that the juice is worth the substantial squeeze when it comes to that jet. The race is largely for second, because first place (the Lightning) is so far in front of the pack.

We have ITAR-free Rafale. And for better or worse, we don't "vendor lock-in" our planes.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#102

Post by clivestaples »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #20
clivestaples wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

Give them the tools they need to finish the job. This whole thing started when they willingly disarmed in return for security assurances that didn't turn out to be worth the paper they were written on. It progressed when Obama failed to help them stop Putin in 2014, and now it's metastasized due to Biden's half-assed support and Trump's active antipathy.

That's exactly what I'm asking: what tools? The only thing I see is endless supply of money and ammo which means attrition. Russia will win in manpower but maybe not economically. I'm kindly asking to be educated with more than talking points we've all heard from politicians.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#105

Post by WinstonSmith84 »

arandomusername wrote: post #87
onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

> The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed No they didn't. There was never any promise like that.

Yes they did (with Russia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_de...

> ... In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer these weapons to Russia ... in exchange for economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and United Kingdom to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders....

And yes there is this point but this is irrelevant. Ukraine played by the rules and got played. Nobody would have invaded Ukraine in 1994 if they had refused, especially given the state of the Russian army at this time

> While all these weapons were located on Ukrainian territory, they were not under Ukraine's control.[4]

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#106

Post by Exoristos »

hagbard_c wrote: post #5
zzzeek wrote: post #2

yeah, they're going to have to build a new NATO-like alliance and go it alone. Seems like it would be a good thing if the EU had some military teeth of their own to give them more leverage in all the Bad Things going on now.

...and before you know it the old rivalries flare up again on who is to be the leader of this fourth iteration of a European empire. Germany versus France, France versus the UK, Germany versus Poland, Italy versus France, a combination of some of these versus one of the others. A 'European army' would be under the control of... the EU? Some new organisation to be specifically created for this purpose? Some committee-…

I think it's realistically only Germany v. France, with U.K. meddling (powerfully) from the sidelines. And I don't think either Germany or France has the fortitude to establish any real hegemony. So I predict that, with or without expressed U.S. support, Europe will continue to be satellites in the U.S. orbit.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#107

Post by cm2187 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12
throw0101d wrote: post #7

Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…

I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.

Why more dangerous? I am worried about religious fanatics armed with nuclear weapons. I am not really worried about Germany, South Korea, Japan or Taiwan armed with them. The more deterence, the less likely there will be a war. You go to war when you think you can get away with it, not when you think there is even a 10% chance all you major cities will be nuked.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#109

Post by kdavis »

arandomusername wrote: post #87
onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

> The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed No they didn't. There was never any promise like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#110

Post by clivestaples »

watwut wrote: post #17
clivestaples wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

The thoughts are to NOT allow them to have time to rearm, get ready for another invasion, get another territory. And then again and again. That is all the peace right now would be - strategic pause so that Russia can get stronger for the next attack. Also, Trump is supporting Russia while attacking Europe, Canada, Mexico, Greenland ... . Trump talks about annexing parts of Europe (Greenland) and annexing Canada.

So by continuing to send more cash and weapons, it will eventually force Russia to retreat? I'm trying to understand what would secure victory.
Post reply on HN