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Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

reuters.com

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Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#61

Post by rafaelmn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18
clivestaples wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

> What's the next move? Let the Ukrainians decide. The war could have been over if Biden and Musk hadn’t meddled in Kyiv’s strategy. There is no peace with a Moscow that believes it can gain resources and mollify its population with wars of expansion. Pausing in Ukraine just allows for build-up for another wave. Maybe in Ukraine. Maybe elsewhere.

> Let the Ukrainians decide.

With money and military/economic tensions for EU and US ? EU might have some interest in stabilizing the border and preventing future threats, but US literally has no interest there. And the only EU member that possibly had to worry about Russia is Finland, but they are in NATO now.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#62

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jimbob45 wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the next move? Let the Ukrainians decide. The war could have been over if Biden and Musk hadn’t meddled in Kyiv’s strategy. There is no peace with a Moscow that believes it can gain resources and mollify its population with wars of expansion. Pausing in Ukraine just allows for build-up for another wave. Maybe in Ukraine. Maybe elsewhere.

The war could have been over if Biden and Musk hadn’t meddled in Kyiv’s strategy. This is the exact line of thinking that Hitler used to justify WW2. Surely we can all see this logic for the farce that it is. Ukraine never had a shot at winning this war and it’s only with massive international support that they’re able to maintain the fragile stalemate they now find themselves in.

> is the exact line of thinking that Hitler used to justify WW2

Hitler argued that he lost WWII because external powers were limiting the Nazis through diplomatic channels?! (Also, since when do we care about how Hitler justified things?)

> Ukraine never had a shot at winning this war

A significant amount of Russia’s naval and air assets were vulnerable to Ukrainian drone and missile fire in ‘22.

> it’s only with massive international support

You mean like the American Revolution, WWI for the Allies, WWII for the Allies and the Cold War for Europe?

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#63

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #16

The speed at which EU defense integration precedes is dizzying. In only: - one month after the US openly said it won't be the primary security guarantor of Europe - a month and a half after the second inauguration of a NATO sceptical president - three years after the start of a major european land war bordering the EU - 14 years after another US administration formally announced it's "Pivot to Asia" ... a European co…

Macron has been advocating for tighter European collaboration for years, insisting that there should be an integrated European army in 2018 and calling NATO "brain-dead" in 2019. The question is whether other European countries want to be integrated, and thus far the answer has been that they do not.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#64

Post by graeme »

deactivatedexp wrote: post #22
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.

[flagged]

India and Pakistan both have the bomb.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#65

Post by potato3732842 »

ryanisnan wrote: post #28
deactivatedexp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What does this mean? Is this super racist or am I just interpreting it that way?

He's asking if the first world will allow non-rich non-european countries that don't already have nukes to develop nukes while insinuating that there's a racial element (there definitely was historically) to such decisions.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#66

Post by tombert »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12
throw0101d wrote: post #7

Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…

I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.

Makes me wonder if I should get the hell out of New York.

Seriously, if someone decides to nuke the US, where would they start? Almost certainly Washington DC and NYC. The US is too big to bomb in its entirety.

Maybe I should move to Boise, Idaho or something. I don't think they're going to get bombed, and it seems nice.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#67

Post by Epa095 »

colechristensen wrote: post #55
throw0101d wrote: post #7

Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…

I was under the impression from things I've read (though I don't remember where) that Japan has for a long time been everything but nuclear ready. As in they wanted to be able to say they didn't have nuclear weapons but in reality they'd done everything but final assembly of devices (or similar 95% complete kind of status). Perhaps even similar to Israel's assumed but never publicly acknowledged full nuclear capabili…

It's called nuclear latency https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_latency

  Japan is considered a "paranuclear" state, with complete technical prowess to develop a nuclear weapon quickly, and is sometimes called being "one screwdriver's turn" from the bomb, as it is considered to have the materials and technical capacity to make a nuclear weapon at will.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#68

Post by LAC-Tech »

robwwilliams wrote: post #44
LAC-Tech wrote: post #16

The speed at which EU defense integration precedes is dizzying. In only: - one month after the US openly said it won't be the primary security guarantor of Europe - a month and a half after the second inauguration of a NATO sceptical president - three years after the start of a major european land war bordering the EU - 14 years after another US administration formally announced it's "Pivot to Asia" ... a European co…

Yep, ridiculously slow to reach the melting temperature on decision making. But the transition could now be quick.

You know the more I think about it, the more I consider that even without US support, their primary adversary has already demonstrated their impotence as an offensive military power. Maybe they simply don't need to do much more than they're already doing.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#70

Post by JumpCrisscross »

azan_ wrote: post #39
clivestaples wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

Letting Russia keep the territories they control now is a great way to ensure that in few years when they rebuild their military potential they will attack again.

It also signals wars of conquest are back. That’s a message that will also be heard by revanchists in Beijing and New Delhi and expansionists in Tel Aviv, Riyadh and D.C.
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