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Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

reuters.com

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Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#11

Post by jlaporte »

zzzeek wrote: post #2

yeah, they're going to have to build a new NATO-like alliance and go it alone. Seems like it would be a good thing if the EU had some military teeth of their own to give them more leverage in all the Bad Things going on now.

Macron has been advocating for a European Army for around a decade. With the recent EU defence spending announcements the idea of a unified command structure in Europe is becoming likely.

The French offer to extend their nuclear umbrella seems to me to have two purposes:

1. Deal with the immediate vulnerability opened by questions over U.S. Article 5 commitments to NATO

2. Try to get ahead of potential nuclear weapons proliferation among other EU states

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#12

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

throw0101d wrote: post #7

Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…

I think the collapse of the US as "The World's Policeman", will result in the most nuclear proliferation since the 50s. That alone will make the world a much, much more dangerous place.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#13

Post by watwut »

hagbard_c wrote: post #5
zzzeek wrote: post #2

yeah, they're going to have to build a new NATO-like alliance and go it alone. Seems like it would be a good thing if the EU had some military teeth of their own to give them more leverage in all the Bad Things going on now.

...and before you know it the old rivalries flare up again on who is to be the leader of this fourth iteration of a European empire. Germany versus France, France versus the UK, Germany versus Poland, Italy versus France, a combination of some of these versus one of the others. A 'European army' would be under the control of... the EU? Some new organisation to be specifically created for this purpose? Some committee-…

Hungary and Slovakia are pro-russia currently, so not really. But nothing unites people as much as common threat and both US and Russia are currently providing that.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#14

Post by clivestaples »

onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#15

Post by ReptileMan »

throw0101d wrote: post #7

Some folks are arguing even further, "Japan, South Korea, and Poland need nuclear weapons immediately": > The modern world is a place where nuclear-armed great powers, led by authoritarian leaders, often feel the impulse to bully smaller nations. If those smaller nations lack nuclear weapons, they lie prostrate and vulnerable at the feet of the bullies. But if they have nukes, they are much harder to push around. Thi…

[flagged]

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#16

Post by LAC-Tech »

The speed at which EU defense integration precedes is dizzying. In only:

- one month after the US openly said it won't be the primary security guarantor of Europe

- a month and a half after the second inauguration of a NATO sceptical president

- three years after the start of a major european land war bordering the EU

- 14 years after another US administration formally announced it's "Pivot to Asia"

... a European country has announced it's "open to discussion" about extending its nuclear umbrella. Not that it's offering the umbrella. Not that it has discussed offering the umbrella. But that it's open to start those discussions.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#17

Post by watwut »

clivestaples wrote: post #14
onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

The thoughts are to NOT allow them to have time to rearm, get ready for another invasion, get another territory. And then again and again. That is all the peace right now would be - strategic pause so that Russia can get stronger for the next attack.

Also, Trump is supporting Russia while attacking Europe, Canada, Mexico, Greenland ... . Trump talks about annexing parts of Europe (Greenland) and annexing Canada.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#18

Post by JumpCrisscross »

clivestaples wrote: post #14
onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

> What's the next move?

Let the Ukrainians decide. The war could have been over if Biden and Musk hadn’t meddled in Kyiv’s strategy.

There is no peace with a Moscow that believes it can gain resources and mollify its population with wars of expansion. Pausing in Ukraine just allows for build-up for another wave. Maybe in Ukraine. Maybe elsewhere.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#19

Post by robwwilliams »

onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

Not just a large fraction of US citizens, but essential all Republican “leaders”.

Re: Macron to open debate on extending French nuclear protection to European allies

#20

Post by CamperBob2 »

clivestaples wrote: post #14
onepremise wrote: post #9

Given that the Trump administration aligns itself with Russia and North Korea, the EU will need it. The US convinced Ukraine to scrap their nukes as they promised they would come to Ukraine's aid if needed. Trump is basically exploiting the situation to gain access to their natural resources. He's also telling them to let Russia keep the territory they stole when they Invaded Ukraine. Yes imagine that, Russia startin…

The war has been going on for three years with no end in sight. What's the next move? What are your ideas to defeat Russia and take back the areas they've gained since 2014?

Give them the tools they need to finish the job.

This whole thing started when they willingly disarmed in return for security assurances that didn't turn out to be worth the paper they were written on. It progressed when Obama failed to help them stop Putin in 2014, and now it's metastasized due to Biden's half-assed support and Trump's active antipathy.

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