Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights • Hacker News Board

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#221

Post by Ajedi32 » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:40 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #91

Aurornis wrote: post #35

> “The only thing a return to the office has given me is an hour of traffic while driving and a loss in efficiency,” said the worker, who requested anonymity for fear of job reprisals. RTO in a nutshell. As someone who chose my living location based on where my family wants to live first and jobs second, this sudden turn to RTO mandates is infinitely depressing. Most of my work involves talking to people in different…

It's insane that anyone actually believes that it's being done for efficiency. It's not, and never was. It's being done a) to drive people to quit, so they don't have to lay them off, and b) to restore the power dynamic to the status quo ante , where your manager could just look over at your cubicle and see you in your seat, and know that whether or not you were working , you were still there to bow to them. (And man…

> many of them genuinely have zero metric for gauging "how much is Aurornis working?" besides measuring the amount of time a butt is in a seat

This is a legitimate problem though. Obviously making people do all their work from a centralized office location is a horribly inefficient solution, but it is a solution, and if there really is widespread slacking happening it might still be more efficient than doing nothing.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#222

Post by hansvm » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:41 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can, but they won't because nobody dares to stick their neck out for fear of losing their job. And that's been going on for decades, the slow dismantling (if there ever was any) of job and income security, to the point where the majority of Americans, including federal workers, are only one or two paychecks away from financial ruin. Nobody wants to lose their job. Of course, if they get fired and there's nothing…

> Nobody wants to lose their job There is almost zero causality in the U.S. government’s hiring and firing right now. Particularly relating to current conduct. To the extent anyone has received job protection, it’s by getting politically fired and then seeking court protection. So no, this is base cowardice and a lack of patriotism. Not rational action.

> There is almost zero causality in the U.S. government’s hiring and firing right now. Particularly relating to current conduct.

The first firings were all people who knew a guy who knew a guy who wronged Trump. With that kind of retaliatory example, do you not think openly trying to course-correct would result in being fired?

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#223

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:42 PM UTC

xyst wrote: post #173

The power dynamic between labor and capital (or managers in this case) in the US has shifted so much since our grandparents generation. It’s hard to ignore it now. Our rights and safety nets have been stripped away. 40+ years of trickle down economics and other failed neoclassical/neoliberal economic theory have directly caused the situation we are in.

Are you seriously making an argument that workers have worse conditions now than in the 60s?

Feel free to make an argument that we are moving in the wrong direction NOW, but not that we have moved in the wrong direction entirely since the 60s.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#224

Post by alabastervlog » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:42 PM UTC

lokar wrote: post #188

pyrale wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. I very much doubt this is what people want. But people aren't asked their opinion, and there's a difference between disagreeing and starting an insurrection to prevent a coup.

A lot of Americans have been getting screwed for 30 years and have little invested in the stability of the system.

Tons of Trump's most-dedicated supporters appear to be able to afford very expensive trucks and boats and such, and to be able to do stuff like travel to DC to attempt a putsch in the middle of the work week. They're benefitting plenty from the stability of the system. Unfortunately.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#225

Post by pseudalopex » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:43 PM UTC

nokun7 wrote: post #80

[flagged]

> those little shops, daycares, and coffee spots need people around to stay afloat

This is a strange inversion of priorities. Day cares and coffee spots exist to serve their customers. And you have lost sight of many important things if you think parents should be prevented from caring for their own children to support day care businesses.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#226

Post by hedora » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:43 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #183

myvoiceismypass wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The checks and balances part no longer exists, so definitely feels like it’s over.

> checks and balances part no longer exists It honestly hasn't existed for decades.

States rights might save us.

If I was a governor of a blue state, I’d be strongly encouraging laid off government workers to work for my state. I’d also be working to eliminate the trade deficit (including federal taxes and spending) with rest of the US.

Why subsidize this crap if it’s not going to lead to economic prosperity, security, or even pretending the constitution still exists?

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#227

Post by epidemiology » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:44 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #69

selykg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anecdotally, I have some extended family who were very pro-Trump. One of them recently discovered that her job was funded through a federal grant, and now it’s likely going to be cut even though she doesn’t work for the government directly. They also discovered that one of their family members is covered by Medicaid through an avenue that’s looking like it will be cut. They went through a stage of disbelief, but no…

All of the news stories about unlikely Trump voters having regrets are just ragebait. Journalists can always find someone for readers to laugh at because they voted for someone who was openly against them, but that’s a different issue. The real interesting voter regret is when the likely Trump voters start realizing that their guy isn’t who they thought. It’s not going to happen quickly because denial and rationaliza…

Crypto is a technology. Pro-crypto vs anti-crypto is just as stupid as pro-computer vs anti-computers.

We're seeing a moment now where the "pro-crypto" team is bifurcating (really this has always been true but it's more obvious now) into good crypto vs bad crypto. Or mission driven vs profit maximalising. Oversimplifications of a nuanced political, tribal landscape with many many sides but you get the idea.

Democrats being anti all crypto was clearly wrong, attacking the more legitimate parts MORE fiercely than the illegitimate parts. But the flip side is Trump's "crime season" as they call it in crypto twitter, which also sucks. Maybe some day we'll get crypto that is useful, profitable, and designed in a beneficial way. That day is not today.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#228

Post by kasey_junk » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:48 PM UTC

gloosx wrote: post #217

hnthrow90348765 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be difficult to get more of a smoking gun than a plan to drop sanctions and ceasing offensive cyber operations against Russia, as well as the US's lopsided Ukrainian peace deal and pulling financial support for Ukraine. Russia has no military advantage against ours, so there is no reason to placate them due to a threat of war (nukes excluded here, unless Russia has rapidly outpaced us). The only thing t…

>Russia has no military advantage against ours Recent battle experience is kind of an advantage. Russia is running a full-scale war against US and NATO weaponry in Ukraine for three years, studying it and refining its tactics. What was the last battle for USA? Houthis in Yemen? Few airstrikes and limited engagements. It is very naive to believe Putin doesn’t want to cripple the US economy or that war is not a real th…

The US has perhaps the most battle hardened military in the history of the world. It’s had real combat deployments continually for going on 25 years.

At best you can suggest it would be too allocated to counter insurgency but combined arms battles is the heart of American doctrine and its shown its value in Ukraine not its weakness.

I think there are real questions about US military composition, particularly its navy, but battle experience is not a problem.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#229

Post by CivBase » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #2

The disruption is (part of) the point. Degrading the ability of government employees to do their jobs leads to greater inefficiency and more failure, which can then be pointed at to validate assertions that government isn't efficient and produces bad outcomes.

This is too conspiratorial for me.

If the point was to make the government less efficient to justify political platforms, why have private companies been doing the same thing for the last 3 years when there's no political upside for them?

I'm not saying the RTO policy is good. I'm very skeptical of it myself. But this explanation doesn't seem to hold water - especially when better explanations are out there.

They could be using it to thin out their staff without layoffs. They could be propping up real estate values. They could be dealing with sunk costs on office space and looking to justify them. They could be accomidating poor managers who cannoy evaluate employee productivity without seeing butts in seats every day.

Not to mention some people really actually do work less efficiently from home. I can't say exactly what proportion or what the overall productivity impact is. It's probably very hard to measure. But it isn't hard to imagine leaders (in both the public and private sectors) genuinely believing the RTO movement will improve overall productivity.

It also isn't hard to imagine large organizations doing a poor job when implementing their RTO effort. I saw similar issues with the RTO effort in my private company. The same issues also happened with the WFH effort during the pandemic. Mismanagement is commonplace in large organizations.

Re: Federal workers ordered to return to offices without desks, Wi-Fi and lights

#230

Post by TiredGuy » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

This seems like a really political article with not really any tech-related content...

Also note the article starts with the qualifier "in the first few hours", meaning it's not like they're sitting there all day every day with no lights/wifi. This seems like an exaggerated, politically motivated piece that doesn't belong on HN.