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At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

nytimes.com

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Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#31

Post by jimbokun »

rw wrote: post #10
mhartl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the tests are too easy. You might be right that much or most of the higher pass rate is due to higher attendance, but it's also possible that students were learning plenty from section, the book, and working on problem sets. When I taught the analogous course (Physics 1) at Caltech, many of the students skipped lecture entirely. The failure rate was typically under 5%, and I guarantee it wasn't because…

1. - 0.2 = 0.8 is typically a B-. Is there a different grading scale there?

curve?

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#32

Post by barry-cotter »

lliiffee wrote: post #23
gravitycop wrote: post #11

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to lear…

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools.

The long conversations with an expert are purely an Oxbridge thing, it costs waaay too much to do that for it to be worthwhile for students with less potential/no tradition of doing so.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#33

Post by gravitycop »

coolnewtoy wrote: post #30
gravitycop wrote: post #11

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

I've been reading Stanford's Engineering Everywhere lectures, and the thing I'm most impressed about is how much support there is for students: Course-specific computer labs with course-specific lab assistants to help you walk you through problems as you're coming up against them in learning to code! Sections with section leaders who grade your code in front of you and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of your cod…

in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it.

Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence?

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#34

Post by gravitycop »

barry-cotter wrote: post #32
lliiffee wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to lear…

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. The long conversations with an expert are purely an Oxbridge thing, it costs…

http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#35

Post by jimbokun »

lliiffee wrote: post #23
gravitycop wrote: post #11

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to lear…

"(I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...)"

Even if it is delivered as videochat, the attention of the instructor is still a limited resource. And this is the value proposition of a 21st century university. I think this change to the MIT lecture format reflects an understanding of this. Now that MIT has made much of its content available as Podcasts, etc., they are looking for ways they can provide more value to the people on campus.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#36

Post by tokenadult »

gravitycop wrote: post #33
coolnewtoy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading Stanford's Engineering Everywhere lectures, and the thing I'm most impressed about is how much support there is for students: Course-specific computer labs with course-specific lab assistants to help you walk you through problems as you're coming up against them in learning to code! Sections with section leaders who grade your code in front of you and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of your cod…

in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it. Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence ?

Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence?

Yes. I say this as a parent of a pioneer class student in Stanford's EPGY Online High School.

I'll acknowledge that the several examples I have seen (not just EPGY OHS) of distance learning courses have far from immersive telepresence, but I think there is evolutionary adaptation to real-world, in-person conversation that isn't taken advantage of by any distance learning communication mode I have seen.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#37

Post by stcredzero »

The large lecture hall is an example of something which was necessary due to past technology constraints but which persists even though it's no longer optimal. I've taught such classes of 75 to 80 students. Even at that modest size, there is considerable overhead just from managing that many people.

What we really need are uses of technology that maximize interaction between students and professors and amongst fellow students. The most productive time in terms of my teaching were the lab sessions of only 25 students each. That and office hours, which were attended by a shockingly small number of students. I suspect that study groups are also highly productive. Technology should be used to enable more interaction akin to study groups and office hours.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#38

Post by orib »

gravitycop wrote: post #11

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

Answer: It's far easier to talk to someone over a beer when you're in the same building as them. Or to pop up at their office unplanned with a question. Or to work on a project with team members.

School isn't all about lectures, and even for lectures, pre-recorded lectures don't let you ask questions.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#39

Post by lliiffee »

jimbokun wrote: post #35
lliiffee wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to lear…

"(I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...)" Even if it is delivered as videochat, the attention of the instructor is still a limited resource. And this is the value proposition of a 21st century university. I think this change to the MIT lecture format reflects an understanding of this. Now that MIT has made much of its content available as Podcasts, etc., they are looking for ways they ca…

Absolutely, and that is great for students. It could be that universities will become more relevant in a digital age. In the past, a student sitting in a gigantic lecture hall didn't have too much advantage over one just reading a book (and not paying tuition). If universities move to giving student 1 on 1 (or N on 1) interaction, someone in a university will have a big advantage over someone outside.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#40

Post by endtime »

noro wrote: post #29
RK wrote: post #5

As a slight thread hijack, which do you prefer, blackboards or whiteboards? The physicists and mathematicians I know seem to universally prefer blackboards, while everyone else seems to like whiteboards. I like whiteboards for any semi-permanent or "data-rich" writing (i.e. multi-color), but probably prefer blackboards for intense computation.

blackboards are much better: * easier to erase * easier to clean board and erasers * chalk is cleaner, cheaper, more expressive, less wasteful (no plastic), and there are generally more colors available * chalk stays at full "marking capacity" until it runs out. Dry-erase markers make you write at less than full contrast for a long while until you toss them. * chalk dust is no problem if you have windows you can open…

>But whiteboard gets chosen by non-experts

Presumably, non-experts in the details of your opinion about whiteboards vs. blackboards?

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