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Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

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Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#171

Post by javajosh »

paulgb wrote: post #140
duked wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you and got downvoted ;) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4322859 People seems to think that PM is the good guy and CL the bad guy I just see it a buiness trying to profit over one that's already existing and has a strong user base

It's not that simple. PM is trying to profit by innovating, CL is trying to profit by maintaining a monopoly position. They're entitled (legally) to do that, but they're not entitled to do so without losing the goodwill that they rely on for customers to give them their listing for free.

That's an extremely concise, and (I believe), correct, point.

The question is whether or not there's room for a craigslist clone, particularly one that can succeed by sharing its data openly with third-parties.

In truth, I'm doubtful. My reluctant conclusion is that there is, in fact, value in preventing the data from being spread across multiple interfaces and platforms, which itself could confuse users. This was essentially Twitter's stance when it came time to solidify their brand and reduce the number of clients.

There is real user value in knowing how their listing will be presented. I mean, if I'm listing a room for rent and "DruggieCriminalRoommateFinder" syndicates my listing, I'm probably not going to be happy with the response quality.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#172

Post by dangrossman »

icebraining wrote: post #144
biafra wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then those sites will tell CL to sue the users who entered it into their site.

Is it that simple? If the license that those sites have is invalid - and it would be - then they're committing copyright infringement, and CL has an explicit license to go after those.

The copyright is still with the post author; Craigslist is not asking for it to be transferred. The author still has the ability to license the content to the other sites. In doing so, they breach the agreement with Craigslist saying their license was exclusive. So it's simple breach of contract between the listing author and CL; the other site has done no wrong and is not a party to the breach.

IOW: This text gives Craigslist some ammo to go after a site they can prove got the listing from copying Craigslist, but not sites the listing author also posted to.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#173

Post by alttab »

jetti wrote: post #162
jeremymims wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist could: - kill Padmapper instantly by building a map function to view their listings. - elect not to build a map feature because they think it's trivial and they believe no one cares. So Padmapper should languish. - buy Padmapper for a little bit of money and have Eric help make their product better. - hire Eric to make their product better. - invest a little money into Padmapper as a hedge and hope it does…

"Craig Newmark is a lazy monopolist at this point. All profit taking, no innovation." This argument is way overblown. If you ask most companies for the data they generate, they would say no. So singling out Craigslist and using that as an argument as to why Craig is a "jerk" is silly because he would be in good company if that were the case. Bottom line is that CL isn't a hard site to reproduce and even do it in a be…

I don't think its overblown. The major issue here is CraigsList owns the network for internet classifieds, but hasn't done anything to improve their product in a decade. The Craigslist experience has been diminishing ever since:

1) Spam, Scams, and false postings 2) Postings not taken down because they've already been sold 3) Terrible interface for adding pictures, uploading media to help sell.

Generally, the guy is sitting on top of a monopoly and is actively choosing to do nothing with it other than collect money, and prevent anyone from usurping his throne.

Now, is PadMapper out of line by stealing their data? Sure, why not. Is CraigsList out of line for wanting exclusive license on their listings? Probably not.

But when you add that monopoly, and then stifle innovation because you are either lazy or incompetent is not doing the world any good. My guess is - everyone thinks CraigsList works wonderfully because we haven't had an opportunity to see anything better. Its like saying Camera phones are the best thing ever, but its because you've never seen an iPhone.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#174

Post by alttab »

ralfn wrote: post #165
zopa wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really anti-competitive, and it's very unlikely to be illegal. It's just a fairly classic natural monopoly. There's only likely to be one major classified ad company, because advertisers want to use the site with the most users, and users want to use the site with the most classified ads. That's hard for a competitor to break into, not because of anticompetitive behavior by Craigslist, but because of the nat…

Is it not abuse of your monopoly if you demand that their suppliers do not supply competitors? Because thats essentially what this "exclusive" liscence entails?

I read it as this posting is exclusive. I can make a similar posting somewhere else. Sure, I can't copy-pasta, but if CraigsList thinks that because I post on their site that I can't post it on other sites as well I would LOVE to see them try to sue me.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#175

Post by achompas »

wpietri wrote: post #26
achompas wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big gap between "little interest in maximizing profit" and "little interest in fending off existential threats," no?

No. Either your first priority is delivering value to your users or it's not. Craigslist has changed from one to the other. Padmapper isn't the existential threat. It's CL's failure to keep improving.

Despite the reigning opinion on HN, adding this legalese to postings does not hinder CL's ability to serve its users.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#176

Post by achompas »

wpietri wrote: post #26
achompas wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big gap between "little interest in maximizing profit" and "little interest in fending off existential threats," no?

No. Either your first priority is delivering value to your users or it's not. Craigslist has changed from one to the other. Padmapper isn't the existential threat. It's CL's failure to keep improving.

Despite the reigning opinion on HN, adding this legalese to postings does not hinder CL's ability to serve its users.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#177

Post by alttab »

defen wrote: post #125
jc123 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to see the day when craigslist tries to sue posters for this "violation"; so effectively posters can ignore this legalese as it's targeted to give craiglist ammunition against other sites.

> effectively posters can ignore this legalese Operationally, probably true. However, ethically this is no different than the people who said PadMapper should just use "Craigslist's" data regardless of what Craigslist thought about the situation. To be consistent, either you believe: 1) It's ok for PadMapper to re-list Craigslist's data without Craigslist's consent. OR 2) If you post a housing listing to Craigslist,…

If CraigsList ever went after a poster who also posted their classified on another site, that would probably be the day they begin to unravel.

You don't want to instill fear into posters (IE, their product) that they could get sued by posting even a similar ad on a competing site. Then you enter the territory "I only have access to people who check craigslist" instead of an array of additional, complementary options. That doesn't sound very attractive.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#178

Post by alttab »

defen wrote: post #125
jc123 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to see the day when craigslist tries to sue posters for this "violation"; so effectively posters can ignore this legalese as it's targeted to give craiglist ammunition against other sites.

> effectively posters can ignore this legalese Operationally, probably true. However, ethically this is no different than the people who said PadMapper should just use "Craigslist's" data regardless of what Craigslist thought about the situation. To be consistent, either you believe: 1) It's ok for PadMapper to re-list Craigslist's data without Craigslist's consent. OR 2) If you post a housing listing to Craigslist,…

If CraigsList ever went after a poster who also posted their classified on another site, that would probably be the day they begin to unravel.

You don't want to instill fear into posters (IE, their product) that they could get sued by posting even a similar ad on a competing site. Then you enter the territory "I only have access to people who check craigslist" instead of an array of additional, complementary options. That doesn't sound very attractive.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#180

Post by achompas »

prawn wrote: post #96
briandear wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are letting the market decide.. They just aren't letting people use their content. Craig is a bit of a nut, but it is a business. People are free to use other sites an post ads on other sites. CL isn't stopping them. Even the smallest indie record label would sue if another record company released an album with that label's songs. They may be in it 'for the music' but they aren't going to cut off their own foot…

It wasn't really their content. And now, though they are claiming exclusivity, it's not really in the interest of their beloved users to claim it as theirs. And no, people don't appear to be legally free to use other sites as well as Craigslist with the same content they've created.

No, but the content is hosted on their servers. Services scraping this content will hit CL's infrastructure hard. It's actually in the interest of their users to minimize server load, so they can browse listings more quickly.

And no, people don't appear to be legally free to use other sites as well as Craigslist with the same content they've created.

If you're not a lawyer, this is conjecture. We don't know how this will be enforced in the future.

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