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An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#361

Post by hyperdimension »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #263
teshaq wrote: post #34

While I agree with folks that this is a step backwards in privacy, I think it’s a good exercise to zoom out and understand Firefox’s position. The browser market is highly competitive, and Mozilla’s competitors have orders of magnitude more resources at their disposal. As we all know Firefox’s market share has been dropping over the past years and unfortunately the revenue supporting all of Mozilla comes predominantl…

Or, hear me out, surprising, crazy, I know: Sell the browser!

Opera did that for a while, but in a different era. I'd pay for Firefox today though, just to keep someone fighting Google's vision of the Internet (ugh) alive. :/

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#362

Post by mmooss »

ummonk wrote: post #284
devmor wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On your device: "Interests: Candles, Wooden Sculptures, Underwater Basket Weaving" Advertiser: "Show this to users who like Candles." Mozilla: "OK" That's pretty standard and can be used to track people on the advertiser's side still, depending on how the ad itself is served and how clicks on the ad are processed.

Does Firefox download information about every ad that advertisers have paid for, and then match against local data to decide which ad to serve? If not, when it queries to find out which ads to serve, what data does is sent with that query (or prior to that query)?

Firefox has done a lot of work on these problems. I don't have it in front of me, but they described in detail what they do.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#363

Post by zeckalpha »

lolinder wrote: post #290
zeckalpha wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling access to be the default search engine could count under this definition, which was Mozilla's primary revenue source for decades.

Wait, what? What part of this definition would include selling a default setting? > selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer’s personal information Mozilla doesn't need my personal information at all to set a default search engine.

It rents making your personal data available.

Under a loose interpretation, which is what they expressed concern about.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#364

Post by ukuina »

inetknght wrote: post #310
brookst wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only two ways to generate revenue: direct and indirect. Nobody will pay for a browser. I don’t use Firefox and this whole thing is distasteful, but I’m not sure how they’re supposed to cover operating expenses without indirect monetization, or what for of indirect other than ads would work.

> Nobody will pay for a browser. Speak for yourself. Give me a browser that clearly and unambiguously does not sell my usage of it in any way, and I will give you a monthly subscription.

Horse Browser? https://gethorse.com

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#365

Post by JumpCrisscross »

teshaq wrote: post #34

While I agree with folks that this is a step backwards in privacy, I think it’s a good exercise to zoom out and understand Firefox’s position. The browser market is highly competitive, and Mozilla’s competitors have orders of magnitude more resources at their disposal. As we all know Firefox’s market share has been dropping over the past years and unfortunately the revenue supporting all of Mozilla comes predominantl…

> donations amount to so little compared to its Google revenue

“Interesting to note that the Mozilla CEO earned nearly as much ($5.6 M) as Mozilla received in donations ($7 M)” [1].

[1] https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4387539/firefox-money-invest...

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#366

Post by wyclif »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #115
wyclif wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me the uphill battle Kagi is fighting to get people to pay for ad-free search and browsing. I wish them all the best because I think it's a fight worth having. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/why-kagi/why-pay-for-search.html

Kagi is fighting the good fight. I admire them, though I'm not yet a customer. I stumbled upon their Orion docs, I find the following concerning: Orion is a free, lightning-fast, privacy-protecting browser for Apple users, open to the web and all its standards and protocols. One day, we hope everyone will say Orion is the best browser for all Apple devices. We're glad you're here! That's fine and dandy, but I'm not a…

outside of the U.S., Apple is not really a thing

I think Apple is still very much a thing in the EU and the Anglosphere. What platform are you on?

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#367

Post by ivanmontillam »

wyclif wrote: post #366
ivanmontillam wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi is fighting the good fight. I admire them, though I'm not yet a customer. I stumbled upon their Orion docs, I find the following concerning: Orion is a free, lightning-fast, privacy-protecting browser for Apple users, open to the web and all its standards and protocols. One day, we hope everyone will say Orion is the best browser for all Apple devices. We're glad you're here! That's fine and dandy, but I'm not a…

outside of the U.S., Apple is not really a thing I think Apple is still very much a thing in the EU and the Anglosphere. What platform are you on?

I live in the south of South America.

Apple doesn't have official stores around here like they do in the U.S., so Apple doesn't enjoy of the market forces like other vendors do.

Just to single out an example, Samsung here takes device trade-ins of both Samsung and Apple devices. If you wanted an iPhone you'd have to buy it at full price new always. Not even carriers offer discounts for Apple devices.

For starters, Samsung in this country has a factory/assembly line making it cheaper for locals, so your device is put together here and also exported to the neighbours.

If you want my claim backed up with numbers: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/android-vs-apple/

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#368

Post by account42 »

mmooss wrote: post #362
ummonk wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Firefox download information about every ad that advertisers have paid for, and then match against local data to decide which ad to serve? If not, when it queries to find out which ads to serve, what data does is sent with that query (or prior to that query)?

Firefox has done a lot of work on these problems. I don't have it in front of me, but they described in detail what they do.

I'm sure the internet police's thorough investigation into themselves has shown they are doing nothing wrong.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#369

Post by account42 »

brookst wrote: post #265
0xFEE1DEAD wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose firefox because I don’t want my browser to build an ad network to sell targeted ads. And I definitely don't want this: > You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This doe…

It’s a weird term, but I’m not sure how “for the purpose of doing as you request” is terrible. To me that means that when you type a url, they have the right to do a DNS lookup for it. Is there some interpretation where “for the purpose of doing as you request” means any purpose they want?

And they should use the system DNS services for that, not their own partners.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#370

Post by account42 »

Idesmi wrote: post #299
BSDobelix wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Na, Mozilla will die and Firefox and Thunderbird will get transferred to a community project, Thunderbird survived without Mozilla so will Firefox. Pretty sure that community project will get overwhelmingly big donations from all over.

A web browser is much more complex software than an e-mail client, though.

A web browser doesn't need to scope of "copy every thing Chrome does".
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