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Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

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Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#61

Post by jisnsm »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

It’s very easy. Waste in private organisations costs the owners money and the organisation disappears when the money runs out. Waste in public organisations costs all of us, including me, money, and the organisation never disappears, if anything, it keeps growing and consuming more money forever.

If Mark Cuban wants to spend his money on this I don’t see the issue. It’s his to waste.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#62

Post by jkestner »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #42
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

[flagged]

Ah yes, the world is very simple, isn’t it? Private organizations like all of Musk’s companies, built on government subsidies?

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#63

Post by cmrdporcupine »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

There is at the root here an ideological presupposition that profit (and competition) is the only real motivation that produces quality or efficiency.

Community service as a motivation is actually extremely strong, but becoming more and more invisible in public discourse. With expected results. Which is strange from a nation that is constantly proclaiming its "Christian" foundations?

I have many friends (and a spouse!) who take lower compensation packages so they can work in non-profit or government or other areas where they personally feel they are obtaining some meaning.

I can assure you they work damn hard without fear of "competition."

(EDIT: There are frankly other presuppositions about the nature of private vs public funding and what taxation means/is, but they end up in pointless controversial discussions or downvote fests that I have no interest in getting into this morning...)

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#64

Post by enlightenedfool »

bayindirh wrote: post #49
enlightenedfool wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The thing you see as waste from outside might be the most efficient system possible given the consequences and tons of time it had for evolving. These systems contain huge icebergs of knowledge gained, refined and organized over time. Rooting them like weeds which grow in three days flat is a huge mistake.

Well, let’s find that with DOGE. DOGE had already revealed things that are so unnecessary for a government to do. Humans can do much better governance than what we do now.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#66

Post by whyenot »

dcow wrote: post #52
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

The way you combat the creep of bureaucratic miasma is by regularly turning a critical eye inward. At least private organizations perform regular layoffs. At least private organizations are accountable to shareholders. The government is accountable to citizens and citizens voted for this. Yes, it’s disruptive. That’s the point.

A plurality (49.8%) of voters voted for Trump. More voted for something else.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#67

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

jkubicek wrote: post #44
_fat_santa wrote: post #25

Put Mark Cuban to the side for a bit, I think the general idea of 18f going private is a good one and was my first reaction when I heard they were getting dissolved. EDIT: I think it's a good idea in the context of them getting dissolved. I would much prefer if they continued to exist within the govt, but if the choice is between going private and ceasing to exist, I would prefer they go private and I think it's a go…

I think 18F going private is a terrible idea. The US government should directly employ the people that are responsible for building and owning its core infrastructure.

This is already untrue, leaving 18F aside - lots of core infrastructure is outsourced and the vast agencies are mostly operating or maintaining things. Plus where does that road end - they don’t build their own operating system after all. They have to outsource some of it.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#68

Post by modeless »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

The difference is private companies that accumulate too much waste and useless things can fail and be replaced. The exception is companies propped up by government regulation. The problem with modern big companies is that the exception has become the rule.

Regulation is so pervasive it's become a "what the hell is water" situation. People don't even recognize that the dysfunctional companies are protected from failure by the government. Seemingly beneficial regulations create barriers to entry that prevent dysfunctional companies from being replaced. IP law, even copyright (in its current, out-of-control practically perpetual form) is regulation that protects large incumbents in media and tech and other sectors from competition.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#69

Post by [deleted] »

hypeatei wrote: post #31
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

> These people must have never worked at a large corporation Efficiency isn't the point, the point is funneling more money to themselves and their friends.

[deleted]

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#70

Post by suddenlybananas »

modeless wrote: post #68
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

The difference is private companies that accumulate too much waste and useless things can fail and be replaced. The exception is companies propped up by government regulation. The problem with modern big companies is that the exception has become the rule. Regulation is so pervasive it's become a "what the hell is water" situation. People don't even recognize that the dysfunctional companies are protected from failur…

Delusion belief in market forces that completely ignores the reality when companies reach monopoly status.
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