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The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

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Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#51

Post by dangus »

lazide wrote: post #5
taeric wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly, sevearal things. First, plurality. Second, they voted for Congress, as well. Where are they? Third, they trust in the entire system, even if their trust has been manipulated by some agents. That is why we are supposed to have checks and balances.

The same people voted the folks into Congress too.

Sure, but the whole idea of representative democracy (a Republic[1]) is supposed to be that Congress and other elected members of government are supposed to be immune from the trappings of mob rule.

In other words, the excuse you are making is that people voted for the government to start doing borderline illegal or at the very least highly misguided and self-destrctive things that are against the interest of their constituents, and that because the people want those dumbass destructive things the government should comply with those wishes.

That logic only goes so far when we consider the context of the very same government that also denies the people things that are far more popular.

For example, 62% of Americans are in favor of universal healthcare, but we aren't getting that.

82% of Americans are in favor of paid maternity leave.

And yet, our lawmakers have not delivered to the American people those demands.

But here we all are implying that 51% of the country deciding they want to dismantle the US executive branch is enough public support to just go ahead and do so with impunity.

The 2024 Trump presidency is, believe it or not, already a historically unpopular administration by the objective polling numbers. Why should they get to dismantle the government with such a weak mandate?

Frankly, it's bullshit.

[1] This is coincidentally the excuse that every Republican I've ever met including my Fox News Dad makes for the electoral college and gerrymandered congressional districts amplifying rural MAGA votes so that states with majority Democrat constituents are ruled by Republican statehouses and so that Trump and Bush got to win presidential elections without winning the popular vote.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#52

Post by llm_trw »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #22
llm_trw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralise government so a single election doesn't destroy everything. In short: states rights.

Or, reform your Presidency to be a constitutional role only, with executive power devolved to the party or parties of your elected representatives that is able to show the head of state that they have the numbers to govern. E.g. like the President of Ireland, or the King of England (via the Governor General proxy) in countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Also, the Electoral College is an archaic anachronism,…

What works for a country the size of a New York neighbourhood doesn't work for a country the size of a continent.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#53

Post by a-dub »

if they were honestly trying to improve things, the cuts would be phased in over a few funding cycles at a minimum.

it's hard to see surprise cuts as anything more than willful vandalism and a gift to global competitors.

time to donate time and money to their opposition. one month in and they've already proven themselves a failure.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#54

Post by transcriptase »

rezonant wrote: post #36
tw04 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Practically speaking, when the majority of people who decided to vote voted for the person applying these policies, what mitigations are left? Impeachment. In a functioning government. Because the elected person campaigned on not doing any of these things.

He campaigned on doing exactly these things

You can tell who never bothered to watch a single Trump rally or campaign event by the fact that they’ll LARP being a deceived supporter.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#55

Post by dataflow »

bryant wrote: post #2

Practically speaking, when the majority of people who decided to vote voted for the person applying these policies, what mitigations are left? The courts are themselves slow and ultimately roll up to allies of the despot. People say that the midterms are crucial, but the midterms are only likely to be won if Democrats truly unify and apply winning strategies. Sadly the only winning strategies now seem to involve tell…

The only legal answer I'm aware of is the states setting up a Constitutional Convention. (Well, either that, or having the cabinet declare the president incapacitated.) Good luck getting the majority of the states or cabinet on board.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#56

Post by bbor »

torstenvl wrote: post #41
bbor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) The answer is impeachment -- regardless of partisan policy discussions on what we should do with these agencies, there is a strong legal argument that overruling congress via impoundment and/or the actions discussed here violate the constitutions most basic precepts. Our founders, for better or worse, including one escape valve for such a situation: congress reasserting its power via impeachment. I know recent his…

> there is a strong legal argument that overruling congress via impoundment and/or the actions discussed here violate the constitutions most basic precepts No there isn't. The text of the Constitution says the opposite: it makes appropriation a necessary condition for expenditures, but omits any clause making it a sufficient one. And the only case law on this issue is Train v. New York, which assiduously avoids rulin…

What is the role of congress, if its enumerated powers do not imply that any of those things should actually happen...? Honest question. Are you honestly saying that there's an implied 100% veto available to the executive for anything done by congress?

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#57

Post by motorest »

MVissers wrote: post #34
nielsbot wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW a lot of people didn't vote for this even if they voted for Trump and the GOP.

I mean, if you re-elect the guy that tried to forcibly stay in power last time, I'm not sure what else to say... Zero sympathy for Americans that voted for this and the ones that stayed home. I feel bad for the ones that voted Kamala and for the West.

> I mean, if you re-elect the guy that tried to forcibly stay in power last time, I'm not sure what else to say...

You're arguing what you think would happen if Trump was elected.

OP is saying something different. He's saying the among the people who voted for Trump, some believed something else would happen and they might feel defrauded.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#58

Post by jghn »

lazide wrote: post #5
taeric wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly, sevearal things. First, plurality. Second, they voted for Congress, as well. Where are they? Third, they trust in the entire system, even if their trust has been manipulated by some agents. That is why we are supposed to have checks and balances.

The same people voted the folks into Congress too.

Let's not forget that the house is artificially capped [1]. It should have a much larger membership. The senate already biases towards land over people. And more and more the house does as well.

[1] https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1901-1950/Th...

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#59

Post by llm_trw »

duskwuff wrote: post #39
llm_trw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralise government so a single election doesn't destroy everything. In short: states rights.

Alternatively: we need to rein in the powers of the presidency. Right now we've got a dynamic of "the president says what to do and the legislature obeys" (or, recently, "the president does stuff on his own"); we might be better off with "Congress decides what to do and the president makes it happen".

California has half the population of Germany and twice the GPD.

We can't pretend the US is some dinky country in Europe that can be ruled the same way.

Re: The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed"

#60

Post by modzu »

D13Fd wrote: post #26
alabastervlog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many actions the administration has taken are illegal. Not sure if those related to NIH are, but if they’ve been firing people, odds are good, since they’ve been doing that wrong most of the time it seems like. Congress could change the laws, but they haven’t. Lots of this junk is simply against the law. The courts are moving relatively fast, as such things go, but it takes time. Congress is supposed to control spend…

> I give it 50/50 they do that. Do they even need to, though? If the president cannot be prosecuted for any official acts, and has the power to pardon any subordinate for ignoring the law, and to fire (and then prosecute) anyone who insists on following the law, what does the law matter?

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