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At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

nytimes.com

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Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#21

Post by ponnap »

cturner wrote: post #18
RK wrote: post #5

As a slight thread hijack, which do you prefer, blackboards or whiteboards? The physicists and mathematicians I know seem to universally prefer blackboards, while everyone else seems to like whiteboards. I like whiteboards for any semi-permanent or "data-rich" writing (i.e. multi-color), but probably prefer blackboards for intense computation.

While RK is asking - has anyone had contact with those glass boards that Joel wrote about recently?

We've had them in my previous company. How different are they from the regular whiteboards?

They probably look a lot cleaner than the white ones after years of usage. If the ink in the marker dries out, it is harder to read than it is to, from a whiteboard. Can't think of others for now.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#23

Post by lliiffee »

gravitycop wrote: post #11

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools.

All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to learn with out any physical school or personal interaction, just slower.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#24

Post by eru »

RK wrote: post #5

As a slight thread hijack, which do you prefer, blackboards or whiteboards? The physicists and mathematicians I know seem to universally prefer blackboards, while everyone else seems to like whiteboards. I like whiteboards for any semi-permanent or "data-rich" writing (i.e. multi-color), but probably prefer blackboards for intense computation.

I like blackboards --- but then I am a mathematician. I even brought blackboard foil to glue to the walls at home.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#25

Post by nsrivast »

mhartl wrote: post #8
harpastum wrote: post #4

"As each semester progressed, attendance in [the professor's] introductory physics courses fell to 50 percent, as it did, he said, for nearly all of his colleagues...'I had poor attendance, and was failing 10 to 15 percent'" So, 50 percent of the students aren't coming to class, and they're only failing 10-15 percent? It sounds like the tests are too easy. If the tests were more demanding, more students would come to…

It sounds like the tests are too easy. You might be right that much or most of the higher pass rate is due to higher attendance, but it's also possible that students were learning plenty from section, the book, and working on problem sets. When I taught the analogous course (Physics 1) at Caltech, many of the students skipped lecture entirely. The failure rate was typically under 5%, and I guarantee it wasn't because…

The intro physics class at Harvard is graded something like:

k * homework_score + (1 - k * homework_score) * (final_score^extra_credit)

So you can do no homework and no extra credit as long as you ace the final.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#26

Post by hs »

RK wrote: post #5

As a slight thread hijack, which do you prefer, blackboards or whiteboards? The physicists and mathematicians I know seem to universally prefer blackboards, while everyone else seems to like whiteboards. I like whiteboards for any semi-permanent or "data-rich" writing (i.e. multi-color), but probably prefer blackboards for intense computation.

i like blackboard for the simple reason that chalk never lies

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#27

Post by joe_bleau »

mhartl wrote: post #8
harpastum wrote: post #4

"As each semester progressed, attendance in [the professor's] introductory physics courses fell to 50 percent, as it did, he said, for nearly all of his colleagues...'I had poor attendance, and was failing 10 to 15 percent'" So, 50 percent of the students aren't coming to class, and they're only failing 10-15 percent? It sounds like the tests are too easy. If the tests were more demanding, more students would come to…

It sounds like the tests are too easy. You might be right that much or most of the higher pass rate is due to higher attendance, but it's also possible that students were learning plenty from section, the book, and working on problem sets. When I taught the analogous course (Physics 1) at Caltech, many of the students skipped lecture entirely. The failure rate was typically under 5%, and I guarantee it wasn't because…

First year physics is mostly review for a lot of incoming freshmen, especially if they did one or more AP classes in high school. I'm not suprised that some would do great even skipping the lectures.

When did they put freshmen on grades? When I was at Caltech years ago, first year was pass/fail.

Back then, Goodstein taught phys 1a. Fine lectures, unless you had read the chapter in advance. Then you noticed that his lecture was almost identical to the text, which made it hard to stay awake. Oh, and the retch session were taught by full profs, not grad students, so a lot of learning happened outside of lecture.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#28

Post by raleec »

sachinag wrote: post #13
mhartl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the tests are too easy. You might be right that much or most of the higher pass rate is due to higher attendance, but it's also possible that students were learning plenty from section, the book, and working on problem sets. When I taught the analogous course (Physics 1) at Caltech, many of the students skipped lecture entirely. The failure rate was typically under 5%, and I guarantee it wasn't because…

I pulled this trick in my entry-level calculus class in college. They were so generous with extra credit that my marks should have meant that I got an A. But I didn't do any of the homework and the TA decided to punish me with an A-. I suppose I should have fought, but I'm epically lazy. Lesson: if you're going to do something like this, don't assume that the people on the other end will hold up their end of the impl…

or even their end of the /explicit/ bargain. I had a prof fail me, after announcing that the final grade would be the class grade. I never went to class, so he felt justified in ignoring my A-/B+... took me awhile to get over that slight.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#29

Post by noro »

RK wrote: post #5

As a slight thread hijack, which do you prefer, blackboards or whiteboards? The physicists and mathematicians I know seem to universally prefer blackboards, while everyone else seems to like whiteboards. I like whiteboards for any semi-permanent or "data-rich" writing (i.e. multi-color), but probably prefer blackboards for intense computation.

blackboards are much better:

* easier to erase

* easier to clean board and erasers

* chalk is cleaner, cheaper, more expressive, less wasteful (no plastic), and there are generally more colors available

* chalk stays at full "marking capacity" until it runs out. Dry-erase markers make you write at less than full contrast for a long while until you toss them.

* chalk dust is no problem if you have windows you can open a little

* sounds better when you use it. :)

* nicer light-on-dark contrast (IMO)

But whiteboard gets chosen by non-experts b/c it supposedly makes less dust for electronics/projectors. Unfortunate.

Re: At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the Blackboard

#30

Post by coolnewtoy »

gravitycop wrote: post #11

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

I've been reading Stanford's Engineering Everywhere lectures, and the thing I'm most impressed about is how much support there is for students:

Course-specific computer labs with course-specific lab assistants to help you walk you through problems as you're coming up against them in learning to code!

Sections with section leaders who grade your code in front of you and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of your coding style!

There is no advantage to a huge lecture hall over a podcast. But in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it.

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