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Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

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Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#71

Post by danellis »

JangoSteve wrote: post #55
unoti wrote: post #29

When I try to activate tethering on my Verizon Android, it's still telling me it wants the $30/month. I suppose it's a little soon for this change to already be implemented, but I'm sure ready!

I'm guessing they'd have to send out an OTA update to the OS to remove that message. Depending on your device, as we've seen, that could take years. Install the Foxfi app, it's free and gives you wifi tethering on Verizon Android devices.

I expect so, because, IIRC, they had to send out an OTA update to enable the restriction.

> Depending on your device, as we've seen, that could take years.

The FCC should decide on a reasonable timeframe, and fine them for every day over that that they still charge for it. Verizon can argue that the updates come from the handset manufacturers, but the restriction was put there at Verizon's behest, so they can really only blame themselves.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#72

Post by ars »

Steko wrote: post #45
juiceandjuice wrote: post #32

The most important reason why this is a no-brainer is because of the 700Mhz spectrum auction. The open device restriction (or lack of restrictions really) was a key provision that google pushed for. I'm sure some people are going to say the government is overstepping their authority, but in fact, they aren't. Verizon was overstepping their authority in this case. Everybody has google to thank for this.

Was this a separate deal from the one where Google and Verizon screwed over wireless net neutrality?

Um, they didn't? What are you talking about?

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#73

Post by tkahn6 »

natrius wrote: post #67
tkahn6 wrote: post #28

This is a no-brainer. As others have pointed out, this is a wholly artificial fee. You still have to pay for the data. They're just charging you for how you access the data. Basically it's extortion. Here's something that congress should do. Telecom companies are government-granted monopolies. Why not acknowledge that it's already not a free market situation and cap the profit margin that these companies are allowed…

Limiting profits limits incentives to innovate. We probably don't need innovation for healthcare middlemen. We do need innovation and profits for healthcare providers as well as telecommunications companies.

Yes that's a good point. You could stipulate that some percentage of revenue must be spent on R&D and tie that to the profit margin over a multi-year period.

My concern is that the fees being imposed on consumers are instituted just because they can be and because competition is artificially limited, not to generate revenue so they can provide better service to consumers/attract new customers.

Like I said, it's already a non-free market in the telecom sector; just a matter of how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go in terms of regulation and dictation.

I don't pretend to know what the best course of action is... just spitballing.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#74

Post by beambot »

paul9290 wrote: post #61
juiceandjuice wrote: post #32

The most important reason why this is a no-brainer is because of the 700Mhz spectrum auction. The open device restriction (or lack of restrictions really) was a key provision that google pushed for. I'm sure some people are going to say the government is overstepping their authority, but in fact, they aren't. Verizon was overstepping their authority in this case. Everybody has google to thank for this.

I guess this is nice to see, but with Verizon's new data plans they are eager for you to use as much bandwidth as possible. Thankfully and at the moment there are carriers that provide unlimited data like Sprint. We need more of them!

Doesn't Sprint charge for tethering too? (I currently have a Sprint plan. I'm pretty sure that it's unlimited data, but they don't allow tethering without paying extra fees or rooting your device.)

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#75

Post by drewcrawford »

gojomo wrote: post #26
drewcrawford wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This analysis holds up to "unlimited" plans where "tethering" is really a (poor) proxy for "using a lot of data." But if you have usage-based pricing (which Verizon does), it doesn't matter whether that 4GB originates from an iPhone or a MBP. A packet is a packet and it costs the same to route. I suppose you could argue that Verizon incurs some additional support burden for tethering. I question whether or not this s…

Almost no business charges strictly by commodity packet, because it would be disastrous for their long-term future: their margins, their ability to learn from their customers, and their ability to dynamically improve over time. So any criticism of differentiated pricing based solely on the idea that "a packet is a packet and it costs the same to route" may be astute in the static, technical dimension -- but naive in…

It may very well be disastrous to Verizon's margins. I do not understand why protecting those margins are my responsibility, or anyone's responsibility other than Verizon's.

We're not talking about some cable in the ground upon which Verizon exerts a legal property interest. We're talking about the airwaves that are the permanent heritage of the taxpayer (or arguably land owner), which we as a landlord collectively and temporarily rent out for our sole benefit, in an adversarial negotiation. The whole point of a negotiation is to increase your own margins, often at the expense of the other party's. To say our analysis does this is to say it represents our interests.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#76

Post by Ixiaus »

thetabyte wrote: post #51

While this is wondeful, ZDNet misses something huge picked up on Ars. "The FCC concedes that Verizon may charge $20 per month for customers who retain grandfathered unlimited data plans." http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/07/tethering-apps-must-b... So I won't be benefitting from this. The most ridiculous, bullshit part of all of this is that unlimited plans aren't unlimited anyway . They have "Fair Access Policy"…

Verizon is ending the grandfathered in unlimited plans though... (can't find the press release ATM)

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#77

Post by pkulak »

paul9290 wrote: post #61
juiceandjuice wrote: post #32

The most important reason why this is a no-brainer is because of the 700Mhz spectrum auction. The open device restriction (or lack of restrictions really) was a key provision that google pushed for. I'm sure some people are going to say the government is overstepping their authority, but in fact, they aren't. Verizon was overstepping their authority in this case. Everybody has google to thank for this.

I guess this is nice to see, but with Verizon's new data plans they are eager for you to use as much bandwidth as possible. Thankfully and at the moment there are carriers that provide unlimited data like Sprint. We need more of them!

Capitalism always tends to offering unlimited amounts of scarse resources. Just keep waiting!

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#78

Post by huxley »

ars wrote: post #72
Steko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this a separate deal from the one where Google and Verizon screwed over wireless net neutrality?

Um, they didn't? What are you talking about?

Yes they certainly did:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/08/google-verizon-netneut...

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#79

Post by ceras »

Ixiaus wrote: post #76
thetabyte wrote: post #51

While this is wondeful, ZDNet misses something huge picked up on Ars. "The FCC concedes that Verizon may charge $20 per month for customers who retain grandfathered unlimited data plans." http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/07/tethering-apps-must-b... So I won't be benefitting from this. The most ridiculous, bullshit part of all of this is that unlimited plans aren't unlimited anyway . They have "Fair Access Policy"…

Verizon is ending the grandfathered in unlimited plans though... (can't find the press release ATM)

Only if you buy a new phone through Verizon, I think. If you keep your existing phone, you'll still have an unlimited plan indefinitely.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#80

Post by mistercow »

drewcrawford wrote: post #19
gojomo wrote: post #13

This is the sort of price/service regulation that superficially appears beneficial to consumers... but might not be pro-consumer in its total effects. In particular, it could mean customers who would never use tethering wind up paying incrementally more, because all plans now include that capability, and Verizon still has sufficient pricing power make up the loss from tethering fees with other incremental fee increas…

This analysis holds up to "unlimited" plans where "tethering" is really a (poor) proxy for "using a lot of data." But if you have usage-based pricing (which Verizon does), it doesn't matter whether that 4GB originates from an iPhone or a MBP. A packet is a packet and it costs the same to route. I suppose you could argue that Verizon incurs some additional support burden for tethering. I question whether or not this s…

>But if you have usage-based pricing (which Verizon does), it doesn't matter whether that 4GB originates from an iPhone or a MBP. A packet is a packet and it costs the same to route.

Potentially, but I think it's a fair bet that a lot of people with data plans don't use nearly 4GB. Will that set overlap significantly with the set of customers who tether? Hard to say.

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