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Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

zdnet.com

51–60 of 146 posts

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#51
While this is wondeful, ZDNet misses something huge picked up on Ars.

"The FCC concedes that Verizon may charge $20 per month for customers who retain grandfathered unlimited data plans." http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/07/tethering-apps-must-b...

So I won't be benefitting from this. The most ridiculous, bullshit part of all of this is that unlimited plans aren't unlimited anyway. They have "Fair Access Policy" data caps (5GB for Verizon IIRC) that are just like the modern plans with a tad higher caps. They just advertise differently. It's the same damn thing. And I don't get free tethering. Ridiculous.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#52
post #13

This is the sort of price/service regulation that superficially appears beneficial to consumers... but might not be pro-consumer in its total effects. In particular, it could mean customers who would never use tethering wind up paying incrementally more, because all plans now include that capability, and Verizon still has sufficient pricing power make up the loss from tethering fees with other incremental fee increas…

This analysis holds up to "unlimited" plans where "tethering" is really a (poor) proxy for "using a lot of data." But if you have usage-based pricing (which Verizon does), it doesn't matter whether that 4GB originates from an iPhone or a MBP. A packet is a packet and it costs the same to route. I suppose you could argue that Verizon incurs some additional support burden for tethering. I question whether or not this s…

To add to what gojomo said: tethering fees can act as a price discriminant for providing a service with significant non-marginal costs. It's possible for price discriminants to have positive effects on everyone, although that need not be the case with tethering.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#53
post #28

This is a no-brainer. As others have pointed out, this is a wholly artificial fee. You still have to pay for the data. They're just charging you for how you access the data. Basically it's extortion. Here's something that congress should do. Telecom companies are government-granted monopolies. Why not acknowledge that it's already not a free market situation and cap the profit margin that these companies are allowed…

I don't place wireless data access on the same level as health coverage.

I use Sprint which has unlimited data and unlimited data is a very good sign that competition still exists in the wireless market. Once it goes, perhaps it will be time to start thinking about even more regulation.

I'm not some free open market type either. I'm pissed off about "Obamacare" only because it doesn't go far enough.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#54

One small step for man... The next would be to somehow abolish the per-device data fee structure. We have seven iOS devices. Only three are actively online. Even at that, when at home, office or near wifi cellular data does not get used much if a all. Still, we have to pay 3x the cellular data monthly fee, which is insanity. I do understand the technical and business issues here, but this cuts both ways: I know that…

I guess bundling would be nice, but I don't really see the logic to placing requirements on how the providers structure device plans.

I think the furthest I would go in that direction would be to require companies that control a large percentage of nationwide spectrum to sell access to their towers at regulated rates.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#55
post #29

When I try to activate tethering on my Verizon Android, it's still telling me it wants the $30/month. I suppose it's a little soon for this change to already be implemented, but I'm sure ready!

I'm guessing they'd have to send out an OTA update to the OS to remove that message. Depending on your device, as we've seen, that could take years.

Install the Foxfi app, it's free and gives you wifi tethering on Verizon Android devices.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#56

The most important reason why this is a no-brainer is because of the 700Mhz spectrum auction. The open device restriction (or lack of restrictions really) was a key provision that google pushed for. I'm sure some people are going to say the government is overstepping their authority, but in fact, they aren't. Verizon was overstepping their authority in this case. Everybody has google to thank for this.

Of note... Verizon could theoretically still charge a tethering fee so long as no data was routed through the 700Mhz spectrum.

Verizon's LTE is only on 700MHz. They could charge a tethering fee on their old CDMA network, but that seems like it wouldn't work when their LTE network won't have a fee.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#57
post #29

When I try to activate tethering on my Verizon Android, it's still telling me it wants the $30/month. I suppose it's a little soon for this change to already be implemented, but I'm sure ready!

Just get the app FoxFi -- it allows you to tether for free, even on a non-rooted device.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#58
post #44
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data prices are already set where Verizon anticipates them maximizing profit so raising them isn't going to "make up" for the money they are now out because they can't rip off a tiny minority of their customers anymore.

I don't see how that follows. There's a percentage of their customers -- let's hypothesize 10% -- who were willing to pay an extra $20 for tethering. Now that Verizon can't charge for tethering, it can still raise base rates in such a way that, as long as these customers aren't paying more than $20 more, these customers are unlikely to switch. Further, there are some of the 90% of customers who valued tethering, but…

I agree with that analysis, but my read is that not all the dislike is only from people who stand to benefit (though that's a big part of it), but from a sort of intellectual/aesthetic dislike of markets that don't seem to be pricing commodities in a transparent/consistent way, and instead try to charge different people different prices for the identical product.

For example, your analysis could also apply to differentiated pricing of books. Some people are less price-sensitive, and would pay more if you could manage to charge them in a different tier: say, people buying books charged to their company, or to a university research grant. If you could do that, the base price for poorer people buying books might well be lower. But when Amazon experimented with per-user pricing based on analytics, people got really angry, as it seemed to be removing the idea that books have transparent prices.

Of course, there's often differentiated pricing by differentiating the products, even slightly: SaaS service tiers, limited edition books, hardcover v. softcover, etc. But when the identical product is being priced differently in an attempt to maximize profit in different demographics, it seems worse somehow, like a shopkeeper quoting you different prices based on how you dress (which does happen in countries with haggling-oriented pricing systems, but is contrary to the American expectation of advertised uniform prices).

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#59
post #28

This is a no-brainer. As others have pointed out, this is a wholly artificial fee. You still have to pay for the data. They're just charging you for how you access the data. Basically it's extortion. Here's something that congress should do. Telecom companies are government-granted monopolies. Why not acknowledge that it's already not a free market situation and cap the profit margin that these companies are allowed…

They do it to segment their customers. A lot of us startups do it too when we offer one plan for $9 per month, another for $19 per month. The delta isn't necessarily because our costs are different, but rather because the value to the consumer is different.

You could argue that cellular networks should only be allowed to be dumb pipes because they are a government-granted monopoly (of spectrum). That would put them in a similar place as a utility like your electric company, sort of quasi-private but heavily regulated.

That makes sense, but OTOH utilities are notorious for stupid bureaucracy and being slow to evolve... So would they still deploy new stuff like LTE quickly? Would they still subsidize phones?

I'm not sure of the answer, but I think that's what the real debate should be if you don't want them creating "artificial fees", ie segmenting customers by value.

Re: Let my Wi-Fi go: FCC rules Verizon can't charge for Wi-Fi tethering

#60
post #44
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data prices are already set where Verizon anticipates them maximizing profit so raising them isn't going to "make up" for the money they are now out because they can't rip off a tiny minority of their customers anymore.

I don't see how that follows. There's a percentage of their customers -- let's hypothesize 10% -- who were willing to pay an extra $20 for tethering. Now that Verizon can't charge for tethering, it can still raise base rates in such a way that, as long as these customers aren't paying more than $20 more, these customers are unlikely to switch. Further, there are some of the 90% of customers who valued tethering, but…

If a large enough percentage was paying the fee yes they can make it up but 10% I think you're off by a factor of 2-4, perhaps 10 when you consider the larger market they're trying to move to data plans to begin with.

When the minority is sufficiently small, the pennies you move the profit maximizing point by aren't enough to justify the groan factor you have to deal with, hence I doubt the rate changes. We'll see I guess.

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