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Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

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Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#101

Post by godelski »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #18
ConfusedDog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a heating element to reheat the coffee or tea. I have recently considered need something like a reheating lunchbox so I don't have to use the office microwave which is always gross. I just carry a huge Zojirushi insulted water bottle for my hot water need. I don't want to lose any water capacity...

Why not just clean the microwave? Your coworkers would probably appreciate it.

I'm very much a "fix it yourself" kinda person but I might yell at you if you said this to me. Why? Because I'm cleaning up after you. Why don't YOU clean YOUR mess? Maybe it's one person creating most of the mess (Pareto is a bitch), make them do it. Or we pay cleaning staff, pay them more to do it, I'm sure it's less than you're paying me to do it. It's probably cheaper to buy a new microwave every month than pay me to clean it lol

You pass responsibility to someone who isn't responsible. You don't recognize this function repeats and people become over burdened. Sure "It's not a big deal" but that's in isolation. That's one time, one task. These things don't just add up, they compound

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#102

Post by eulerian »

eesmith wrote: post #99
eulerian wrote: post #58

The cynic in me finds it hypocritical for this article to be published on the internet (major technological feat).

The author saying people should be able make their own choice, and specifically "not advocating a Burkean return to the past". How is publishing this on the internet at all hypocritical?

> people should be able make their own choice

Is anyone currently being forced to use any technology?

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#103

Post by noahjk »

moooo99 wrote: post #10
ryandrake wrote: post #3

Maybe this is a privileged outlook, but I've decided that each piece of technology needs to earn its place in my life, and I'm going to use it deliberately for a specific purpose, if I deem it to be worthy. The smartphone has not earned it yet. Im not going to live in an apartment that requires a smartphone to get into the door. That may involve me making sacrifices, I don't care. You have to draw a line somewhere. I…

> If parking somewhere requires an app, or eating at a restaurant requires a QR code, I'm just going to go somewhere else. I always hated this kind of technology use. I love technology when it is used to do things that were not possible before or hard to accomplish. I hate QR codes, but even they can be handy at times (without the QR code I would have never encountered the DB ICE Portal for example). The examples you…

> Instead of getting a few printed menus on the table, everybody on the table spends 10 minutes being glued to their phones, zooming and scrolling around to make sense of the offer and select something.

Great example, phones are absolutely terrible for navigating menus. I really struggle when I can’t have all of the info presented to me at once - I just get lost scrolling around and juggling options in my short term memory.

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#104

Post by eesmith »

eulerian wrote: post #102
eesmith wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author saying people should be able make their own choice, and specifically "not advocating a Burkean return to the past". How is publishing this on the internet at all hypocritical?

> people should be able make their own choice Is anyone currently being forced to use any technology?

I assume you are not suggesting that so long as it's possible to choose to be a hermit in the deep woods, then your technology use is all optional.

In any case, stone tools are technology. Making fire requires technology.

I'll set aside people who need technology to live (clothes are technology, but so is a CPAP machine).

I'll set aside how places are increasingly going cash free (cash is technology, and credit cards are more advanced technology, and phone payment requires even more technology).

Take my gym. Last year they switched to QR phone entry. The QR code changes every few seconds, so you can't print out the code and take it in. The handful of people without a smartphone, like me, got an exception to use an RFID card.

However, those who have a smartphone were not allowed to use an RFID card, even those complaining at the front desk, angry because they did not want to bring their phone with them to the gym.

It's true they are not forced to go to the gym, though note that most other gyms around here have also switched to smartphone entry, and I chose this gym specifically because they are the only one offering a specific style of group training that I want.

Or, take some of the examples at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43137488 where people can't pay for parking because they need a smartphone app which requires not just iPhone/Android, but is only available from the local country's app store - rather difficult for foreign visitors.

It's true they are not forced to park there. They can find somewhere else and walk or take the bus.

Or, take the local college. They are a Microsoft shop. You need 2FA via smartphone app to log into their machines, access email, and the like. Signs and other info about upcoming events require a QR-code for info like time and place. People are not forced to use a smartphone, since they have a choice to not go to college, or find one of the decreasing number of schools which don't expect everyone to have a smartphone.

Or, a friend of mine lives in a city with no good mass transit options or bike options. Those who don't have a car use app-based taxi services. She knows a couple of people who choose to not have a smartphone, so they are limited to places they can walk.

In all cases there is still a choice, but it becomes increasingly Hobson's choice - and we've decided that living as a hermit, even metaphorically, is not what you mean by an alternative to not being forced, right?

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#105

Post by MrJohz »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #52
Aurornis wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example the smart phone. A physical button or even alexa is easier to turn off the lights. These aren’t mutually exclusive. I usually press the physical button for my lights but it’s great to be able to pull out my smartphone and turn off lights across the house, or even in the same room if I’m doing something like holding a baby who is falling asleep. Putting the common light controls on easily accessible phon…

>This is a deeply cynical and unhappy way to navigate life. And deeply true. Here’s the thing I feel a lot of people think happiness is all that matters. What about truth and reality? My claim is that stupidity being intrinsic to humanity is fucking absolutely true. It has nothing to do with cynicism. I’m baffled at how people don’t even argue the veracity of the claim they just claim it’s “unhappy” as if being delus…

> I work at a place where there are no keys. To unlock a door you have to use your smart phone. Imagine if they did that for lights. I rent an apartment with no physical switches and they force you to use your smart phone. Infuriating. I think if you were rational you would know I’m talking about smart phones in place of physical switches not smart phones paired in addition to physical switches in situations where you have no choice to use it.

I don't think that's so rational — I assumed that you were talking about smartphones in addition to existing switches and other tools, rather than completely replacing them. I have genuinely never heard of such a thing, and if you've had to experience that, then I agree with you that that is an insane concept that doesn't need to exist.

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#106

Post by ryandrake »

noahjk wrote: post #103
moooo99 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If parking somewhere requires an app, or eating at a restaurant requires a QR code, I'm just going to go somewhere else. I always hated this kind of technology use. I love technology when it is used to do things that were not possible before or hard to accomplish. I hate QR codes, but even they can be handy at times (without the QR code I would have never encountered the DB ICE Portal for example). The examples you…

> Instead of getting a few printed menus on the table, everybody on the table spends 10 minutes being glued to their phones, zooming and scrolling around to make sense of the offer and select something. Great example, phones are absolutely terrible for navigating menus. I really struggle when I can’t have all of the info presented to me at once - I just get lost scrolling around and juggling options in my short term…

My eyes can scan a large page much faster than my fingers can scroll a small screen.

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#107

Post by ninetyninenine »

MrJohz wrote: post #105
ninetyninenine wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is a deeply cynical and unhappy way to navigate life. And deeply true. Here’s the thing I feel a lot of people think happiness is all that matters. What about truth and reality? My claim is that stupidity being intrinsic to humanity is fucking absolutely true. It has nothing to do with cynicism. I’m baffled at how people don’t even argue the veracity of the claim they just claim it’s “unhappy” as if being delus…

> I work at a place where there are no keys. To unlock a door you have to use your smart phone. Imagine if they did that for lights. I rent an apartment with no physical switches and they force you to use your smart phone. Infuriating. I think if you were rational you would know I’m talking about smart phones in place of physical switches not smart phones paired in addition to physical switches in situations where yo…

The place where I've seen this happen is the bay area. At least two companies I worked at exclusively only allowed phones to unlock doors.

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#108

Post by ninetyninenine »

bitwize wrote: post #83
bluGill wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alexa - when it works - can do things that cannot be done better in a different ways. There are times when turning on a light or unlocking a door with a phone is better than the alternatives as well. However there are a lot of times where the 100+ year old way of doing the task is better. Even if voice assistants worked perfectly every time they would still be worse than the switch by the door for controlling the lig…

But "The Clapper" would do just as well in the case where you are in bed, and is less complex, less expensive, and doesn't send your claps to the cloud.

"Clapper set lights to red." I like to set the temperature of the lights to a single color at night so as to not mess up my circadian rhythms. Looks like clapper fits the bill.

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#109

Post by bitwize »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #108
bitwize wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But "The Clapper" would do just as well in the case where you are in bed, and is less complex, less expensive, and doesn't send your claps to the cloud.

"Clapper set lights to red." I like to set the temperature of the lights to a single color at night so as to not mess up my circadian rhythms. Looks like clapper fits the bill.

God only knows, you might get your wish. They're probably planning a revamp of the Clapper with built-in AI as we speak.

Re: Should We Decouple Technology from Everyday Life?

#110

Post by eulerian »

eesmith wrote: post #104
eulerian wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people should be able make their own choice Is anyone currently being forced to use any technology?

I assume you are not suggesting that so long as it's possible to choose to be a hermit in the deep woods, then your technology use is all optional. In any case, stone tools are technology. Making fire requires technology. I'll set aside people who need technology to live (clothes are technology, but so is a CPAP machine). I'll set aside how places are increasingly going cash free (cash is technology, and credit cards…

I think this comment is a bit hyperbolic - it's really not so bad. Sure, we need to be mindful about accessibility in our rollout of useful technology. But I think the advantages that technologies, including the ones you listed above, bring into our lives far significantly outweigh whatever you are complaining about.

To your points specifically, I mostly see that you are complaining about technology you were previously used to (RFID cards, parking payment systems, public transit, school management systems, etc.) being replaced by more advanced technology (QR codes, 2FA, etc.). So, I don't see the problem as decoupling technology from lives but as enabling a smoother transition to more reliable and advanced technology.

The article makes other points about addiction, etc., and this is a problem that is not innate to technology but to human behavior that is exploited (knowingly or unknowingly) by profit-driven companies. Targeting the technology itself in this situation, again, is being lazy in my opinion.

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