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Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

modernistcuisine.com

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Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#101

Post by kevinmchugh »

tptacek wrote: post #56
scarby2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sous vide is still used quietly because it's a very practical technique with good results for certain protein preparations, and there are plenty of other useful bits of craft through the book. Similarly I guess mayo didn't exactly disappear from american cooking. I was reading the first part of your response and my mind was immediately going "but sous-vide is everywhere" It's one of those things that's just really…

Circulator eggs never made a whole lot of sense, because you already have a reference temperature to work from and so cooking any number of them is just a matter of setting a timer (do what the Ideas in Food people do and steam them). I can't remember the last time I circulated a steak. But we did a rib roast for Christmas, and I did that in the circulator, in advance, "for insurance purposes", and then cooked it off…

I also do the Paulina Noah's Ark, and it's a great move for a summer bbq, sending out one variety of sausage at a time and letting people try all that sound interesting.

Chicken breast is my favorite use for SV. I don't eat a lot of it, but my wife loves chicken salad, and it's nice for a green salad as well. Eating chicken breast that isn't dessicated is transformative. There's other ways to get there, but boy is SV easy.

Other assorted uses: pasteurizing eggs for cocktails, for the squeamish or immunocompromised; making N/A liquor replacements, in particular the Aviary's Campari replacer; Dave Arnold's mom's stuffing; not owning a smoker

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#102

Post by cwizou »

hellotheretoday wrote: post #99
cwizou wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also followed them pretty much from the start, bought all their classes, pass, but ended up not renewing this year (and probably shouldn't have last year either). They tried to make money with their own sous vide circulator (joule) which had some good pros (very compact and works in tiny depth of water) but at least for me, infuriating cons (no screen/buttons to adjust on the fly, check remaining time, etc, must use…

I never got a joule because I couldn’t fathom why they would build a device without physical controls. It seemed like such a hostile decision imo bc even back then I had cheaper “smart” devices like lightbulbs where the apps were quickly abandoned and then delisted/no longer working after 3-4 years and several iOS updates. I had some confidence Chefsteps wouldn’t do that (and tbf they didn’t) but why risk it? If they…

Yes and the app wasn't even that great in the beginning, trying to put you into a "flow" where you have to pick a recipe, pick the width of your food, pick doneness from pictures, etc... and at least back then, you couldn't adjust much afterwards, you were set in what it decided for you (and I disagreed with the durations).

There was also no manual mode where you could just say, I want 54°, beep me in 45mins but keep that temperature afterwards. It was just needless friction if you had the modicum of experience. And that's without the e-waste question if they didn't get bought out. I think they had committed to opening their app if they went under at the time (I could be completely misremembering that), but such commitments don't mean much.

I think seeing them pushing the control freak all the damn time was also the tip of the iceberg that got me to cancel my pass. Setting the "temperature" with a sensor below the glass seems completely futile to me as a concept on top of it. I just don't see a practical application for it, but maybe I'm missing something.

Doesn't look like they sell it here in France, it's really a baffling, absolutely overpriced product.

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#103

Post by chaorace »

scarby2 wrote: post #29
giraffe_lady wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the things you mentioned are deeply out of style in restaurant cooking right now. So we already do look back on this in a similar way. And they were never that common either. This trend had a short peak and the training, staffing, equipment, r&d costs were all sky high. The backlash was very disproportionate imo; it was never my kind of thing either but you weren't going to run into it unless you were specific…

> Sous vide is still used quietly because it's a very practical technique with good results for certain protein preparations, and there are plenty of other useful bits of craft through the book. Similarly I guess mayo didn't exactly disappear from american cooking. I was reading the first part of your response and my mind was immediately going "but sous-vide is everywhere" It's one of those things that's just really…

It's funny that you mention eggs because there's actually been a recent paper regarding sous vide, soft-boiling, and achieving the "ideal" egg texture through a novel boiling process (novel to me, anyway) which they've opted to call "periodic cooking": https://www.nature.com/articles/s44172-024-00334-w

There's a lot of cool diagrams which I'd encourage skimming that link for, but here's the basic rundown: the goal of the described process is to achieve a creamy yolk like what would be produced via sous vide whilst eliminating the unpleasant jammy eggwhite texture characteristic of that process. The recipe involves 30 minutes of carefully transferring an egg back and forth between two vessels repeatedly: one boiling, one room-temperature. You do that 16 times in exact two-minute intervals in order to achieve the "perfect" egg -- very simple and convenient for the modern home-cook in a hurry!

Anyway... you can watch this guy on youtube make it so that you may eat some other, more sufferable meal more vicariously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahGGanfPDJw

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#104

Post by Moosdijk »

diego_moita wrote: post #81

This book is just pretentious and expensive bullshit. It is just hype to grab fools' money. If you want to know how much "science-infused" is this cooking just look at any picture of its author. Nathan Myrvhold is obviously overweight, a sure sign that he doesn't understand nutrition or basics of health science. You don't need spherification, sous-vide baths or ultra-speed blenders to make tasty and healthy food. All…

You're jumping to conclusions that aren't logical (at least not without you listing your assumptions that led to this post).

There's more science to food than just nutrition and health. Also, that you can make tasty and healthy food without the technology you mentioned, does not exclude the technology from having a place in a kitchen. Lastly, how do you objectively define "weird obsession". Can you give some examples of countries that do not share this "weird obsession"?

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#106

Post by Moosdijk »

diego_moita wrote: post #82
NegativeK wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not mutually exclusive.

Considering that you'll need to spend your restricted money and time on the 2 different approaches then they are, to some degree, mutually exclusive.

by that definition, almost everything you do is mutually exclusive with everything you're not doing at that moment, which does not make sense.

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#107

Post by Agingcoder »

quesera wrote: post #96
kjellsbells wrote: post #19

I dont understand the hate for this book. A very smart and wealthy man spent a lot of coin geeking out on a passion. Doesnt seem very different from Jay Leno and his garage or Tom Hanks and his typewriters. Compared to the ketamine and influence that our current billionaires spend their money on, it seems pretty harmless.

Myrvhold has a bad rep in the tech industry due to Innovation Ventures. But re: Modernist Cuisine , I've always puzzled over the COGS and ROI math. Despite the high price, he might actually be selling at cost. A lot of effort went into these books. The photography was surely expensive to create, and definitely to print. The books must be very low-volume sales, you have to account for the wholesale price to bookstores…

I know a bit about the taschen/luxury books business, having a very good friend who works in this space ( she’s built a publishing business, and makes a living out of it, typically her books print up to a few hundreds at most).

Basically, there are book collectors who are willing to pay for beautiful books ( my friend sells art pieces according to her , not mere books ), companies willing to buy them ( and sometimes codesign them if they’re say luxury brands ) and give them as gifts to their clients, and then people like you and me who will maybe buy one just because you really want it.

It’s not a highly profitable business by any means, it’s a small market, and it’s the opposite of the high volume mainstream publishing industry.

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#108

Post by randerson »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #80
mattmaroon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still poach eggs in the shell in my Anova Precision Oven often. The 13 minute egg is pretty unbeatable. I think the decline in sous vide use in commercial kitchens is largely just because befuddled health regulators pushed everyone toward CVAPs, which do the same thing without the plastic. Now that I’ve got the APO, I cook nearly everything in it. I wish I could get a regular oven-sized version.

The APO is new to me. Looks interesting. Can it really “sous vide” a steak? Does it brown it too?

I have an APO too and love it. While it’s possible to add a second phase to the cook with 0% steam, it isn’t enough to give you a crust on a steak. I still use a cast iron pan to sear it.

The main issue I have with SV, either bagged or bagless, is that the meat needs to be thoroughly dried before searing. So I normally cook it without steam but at 200F or so with a wireless thermometer telling me when it is 10F below my target doneness. A lot like sous vide and the APOs precise temp control still comes in handy.

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#109

Post by tptacek »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #101
tptacek wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circulator eggs never made a whole lot of sense, because you already have a reference temperature to work from and so cooking any number of them is just a matter of setting a timer (do what the Ideas in Food people do and steam them). I can't remember the last time I circulated a steak. But we did a rib roast for Christmas, and I did that in the circulator, in advance, "for insurance purposes", and then cooked it off…

I also do the Paulina Noah's Ark, and it's a great move for a summer bbq, sending out one variety of sausage at a time and letting people try all that sound interesting. Chicken breast is my favorite use for SV. I don't eat a lot of it, but my wife loves chicken salad, and it's nice for a green salad as well. Eating chicken breast that isn't dessicated is transformative. There's other ways to get there, but boy is SV…

How do I not know about Dave Arnold's mom's stuffing?!

Re: Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking

#110

Post by tptacek »

nortonham wrote: post #98
tptacek wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circulator eggs never made a whole lot of sense, because you already have a reference temperature to work from and so cooking any number of them is just a matter of setting a timer (do what the Ideas in Food people do and steam them). I can't remember the last time I circulated a steak. But we did a rib roast for Christmas, and I did that in the circulator, in advance, "for insurance purposes", and then cooked it off…

>Circulator eggs never made a whole lot of sense, They make a great deal of sense in professional kitchens. If you're expecting to do hundreds of brunch covers, or a giant breakfast buffet, poaching eggs sous vide ahead of time is a game changer

How do you poach an egg sous vide? I know how to soft-boil them, of course.
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